AIBU to be shit scared of BJ winning the next election?

[thentherewerefour]

Not sure how everyone else is doing, but I am just increasingly terrified about the idea that BJ and the likes of Jacob Rees-Morgan, Ian Duncan Smith (god they are just so disgusting ) are going to win this election. Got family in Australia and this morning it was raining ash and people literally can't breathe. The Tories are going to do nothing, zero, nada about climate change. And when I look at my kids I just don't know how we are going to survive another five years. and don't get my started about the state of the kid's school - the teachers are doing their best, but the reality is it's a shit show bc of how many cuts they have had. Friends are going canvassing for Labour and me and DH are doing our bit too - but it all just feels surreal - BJ talks shit, tells lies, and has reinvented himself as "new" when the fucker has been IN GOVT for years. Any got any ideas on how we can turn this around?

@somm excellent point about the accusation of being 'hysterical'. It's incredibly disrespectful, condescending and a very lazy ignorant way of trying to shut down an argument.

Totally agree. 'You're jealous' everytime you criticise a person who happens to be a woman comes a close second. Lazy counterargument.

"Or it could just mean that Corbyn’s Labour Party is chock-full of antisemites, as the Jewish Labour Movement has documented in painful detail."

Conflating political criticism of Israel's policies and actions with 'antisemitism' has got a lot of publicity, which the UK press have lapped up.

Valid criticism of Israel's policies is not antisemitism, although it is currently being portrayed as such.

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And there is no evidence of higher rates of antisemitism in the Labour party than in other UK Political Parties or in society in general.

So smearing Labour as "chock full of antisemites" is beyond the pale.

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Jonathan Cook.. The view from Nazareth ... Reporting:
'Last month the Economist magazine, no friend to Corbyn or the Labour party, published a survey of British attitudes towards Israel and Jews, broken down into ideological factions.

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It found that “very left wing” voters – the people who share Corbyn’s politics – were among the least likely to hold antisemitic views, even though they also had by far the most critical views of Israel. By contrast, supporters of the right were three and a half times more likely to express antisemitic opinions. The centre, representing the Lib Dems and the Blairite wing of Labour, expressed little antisemitism but also rarely criticised Israel....

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... The Economist survey offered confirmation of Labour party records showing that instances of antisemitism among its 500,000 members were rare – at just 0.08 per cent of the membership.'

www.jonathan-cook.net/.../antisemitism-claims.../

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Jewish Voice for Labour

'A list of fifty occasions on which Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn stood with Jewish people in the UK and other countries'

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/fifty-times-jeremy-corbyn-stood-with-jewish-people/

Fuck the Tories and anyone who votes for them.

Fuck the Tories and anyone who votes for them.

And you wonder why Labour is losing!

So all Jewish people that feel Corbyn has not dealt with anti semitism within his party and feel in turn he supports anti Semitism. And the many who believe he is anti Semitic himself are wrong

Interesting ....

The argument being anti Israeli government is similar to its only some Asian/black people not you or your family/my best friend is black and so on

The message is I am more intelligent than you, I understand better about this issue than you now if you would only listen to me as I am right in this what you are feeling is wrong ....

It's not, it's a completely different argument.

Being critical of Israel is being critical of the way a state is acting towards Palestinians (or the bit pertinent to this debate is).

It's not being critical of or prejudicial towards ordinary Jewish people.

I am well aware that there is a difference

I am also well aware that people hide their prejudice by making statements like it’s anti Israeli government, not you but other Asians, my best friend is black

People can see through this they know what anti Semitism is as they hate to deal with it they know when excuses are made

OP, I agree.
I'm worried sick too.

Jewish Voice for Labour:

'Press regulator finds Jewish Chronicle guilty of multiple breaches of Editors’ Code'

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'The Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO) has found the Jewish Chronicle – the source of numerous allegations of antisemitism against the Labour Party – guilty on four counts of publishing untrue statements about a Corbyn supporter on Merseyside.'

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'The “significantly misleading claims” published by journalist Lee Harpin and the Jewish Chronicle included the accusation that veteran activist Audrey White and others had ‘bullied’ local MP Louise Ellman by acting as “a group of militants who repeatedly interrupted the MP” during a constituency meeting; as well as claims that Audrey had “lied about her age” to re-join the Labour Party; was previously “expelled from the Labour Party” and a “former member of the Socialist Party.”

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A statement by Merseyside Pensioners’ Association (full text below), of which White is a member, welcomed the IPSO findings in “upholding the complaint by one of our members against the Jewish Chronicle for publishing smears and falsehoods against Labour activists in Liverpool.”
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“The findings make clear that the reporting of the Jewish Chronicle and journalist Lee Harpin fall far below the professional and ethical standards expected of journalists working today — particularly as pertains to accuracy and fact-checking (the most basic principles of reporting).”

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The Jewish Chronicle has been obliged to publish an adjudication summary from the IPSO committee which investigated Audrey White’s complaints. It concludes:
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'The Committee expressed significant concerns about the newspaper’s handling of this complaint. The newspaper had failed, on a number of occasions, to answer questions put to it by IPSO and it was regrettable the newspaper’s responses had been delayed. The Committee considered that the publication’s conduct during IPSO’s investigation was unacceptable. The Committee’s concerns have been drawn to the attention of IPSO’s Standards department.'

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www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/press-regulator-finds-jewish-chronicle-guilty-of-multiple-breaches-of-editors-code/

Has anyone come up with a single anti semitic statement made by Corbyn because I've not seen one thing he personally has said to suggest he is.

Of course I believe there is anti semitism within the party, just as there is in every other political party and generally in society, sadly.

"I am also well aware that people hide their prejudice by making statements like it’s anti Israeli government, not you but other Asians, my best friend is black"
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Are you accusing me of prejudice?

Holy shit people. Where do you get your political facts. There's about 5 sensible people on this post!!

"the NHS" is safe under Tories. Nonsense, it's falling apart under the Tories, and if they planned to save it they would have done so by now.

Immigration is responsible for all the problems and that's Labour's fault. No no no. I can't even begin to answer this, demonising people who come here to work, and have a better life.

JC a terrorist supporter and anti semite. He believes Palestinian people have a basic right to life and that makes him an anti Semite. Seriously. He was also opposed to going to war in Iraq, if he'd been in charge then, there would be less immigrants ruining this wonderful country by the logic of people on this thread.

Anyone who supports BJ is nuts. Properly nuts. Every word he says is lies and mugs fall for it.

Seriously peeps, much as it pains me to say it, let him have his no deal Brexit, destroy the NHS because of the Tories, with the help of the DUP, I and my neighbours will soon be part of a united Ireland in Europe.

No I am not Colour

Are you suggesting people are not aware that people are prejudice and hide behind such statements

@notanotherpothole, absobloodylutely. I wish I lived where you do.

If you are truly worried about antisemitism, you should be deeply concerned about the far right, in the UK, and other European countries, not the UK Labour Party which has low incidence of antisemitism among its members.

'... The Economist survey offered confirmation of Labour party records showing that instances of antisemitism among its 500,000 members were rare – at just 0.08 per cent of the membership.'

www.jonathan-cook.net/.../antisemitism-claims.../

If you are truly worried about antisemitism, you should be deeply concerned about the far right, in the UK, and other European countries, not the UK Labour Party which has low incidence of antisemitism among its members.

This. It's quite obvious from history that the far right cannot be trusted to support and protect Jewish people. That this even needs to be said is quite bizarre really.

People can see through this they know what anti Semitism is as they have to deal with it they know when excuses are made

And we know when 'antisemitism' allegations are being misused by people who don't give a shit about it, who are racists themselves, to try to take down someone who is categorically not a racist. We know.

CendrillonSings
Fuck the Tories and anyone who votes for them.

And you wonder why Labour is losing!
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I think you have a point. The Tories' strategy of using very simple short slogans (sometimes factually incorrect and/or misleading), repeated over and over and over again, coupled with avoiding scrutiny, including the more challenging debates and interviews seems to be working well for them.

I am concerned about the far right rise in this country and in Europe - it’s been ignored for far too long (and so often ignored in discussions about the Europe ) my family have suffered enough but I don’t believe that all Labour voters are not racist as I don’t believe all Tory voters are

The issue of anti semitism has long been a problem in the far left of the Labour Party - that it’s become such an issue for the whole of the party is very concerning and should not be ignored and not be excused by comments it’s anti Israeli government - some is but some is not and no excuse should be made for it (or excuses made for not dealing with it head on)

EnthusiasmisDisturbed wrote: ... "The issue of anti semitism has long been a problem in the far left of the Labour Party - that it’s become such an issue for the whole of the party is very concerning and should not be ignored"

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But it's NOT a "problem for the whole party" ...

You have produced no evidence for your accusations. Only supposed "feelings" among "people".

I have produced evidence. Have you read it?

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'With Panorama’s hatchet job on Labour antisemitism, BBC has become the Tory’s attack dog'

Jonathan Cook
11 July 2019
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'Score-settling may make for lively TV, but it is execrable journalism'

'Some of the former members of the [Labour Party] disputes staff interviewed by Panorama appear to have served effectively as a Trojan horse within Labour’s head office, assisting the Blairites in damaging Corbyn.

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Though it was not mentioned by Panorama, these staff members were caught repeatedly violating the party rulebook by excluding thousands of Corbyn supporters during the two leadership contests, in 2015 and 2016.

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These mass purges had nothing to do with antisemitism. People wereoustedfor “offences” such as retweeting posts by the Green Party or, in one case, praising the band the Foo Fighters.

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'It was the enormous backlog created by these exclusions that overwhelmed the party machinery, leaving it incapable of handling disciplinary matters involving antisemitism.'

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'Labour officialsnotethat, even after Corbyn was secure as leader, the obstruction continued. A small number of staff – the people Panorama interviewed – actively blocked the rapid resolution of high-profile antisemitism cases, dragging them out to embarrass the leadership.'

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www.jonathan-cook.net/2019-07-11/panorama-hatchet-job-labour-antisemitism-bbc/

It’s not a problem yet so many people are saying it is and many are Jewish themselves (and yes aware that not all Jewish people so believe there is an issue)

That Corbyn refused to apologize but then backed down and has now apologized - why is that ?

That Jewish MP’s have said it’s a problem

Ok then you are right then are all wrong

There have been a number if articles written regarding this issue over the last 4 years you know that or have you buried your head in the sand

You know prejudice isn’t always explicit it’s often hidden but people know they see through it why because they experiment it

And yes of course it’s being used against Labour by other parties

*experience it

For those who trust the Tories on the economy, aren’t you downright ashamed that in Britain today so many rely on food banks? That there has been so much suffering under Universal Credit? That the number of children in care is so high?

How can anyone trust the Tories on the economy while watching the Brexit process cause thousands of job losses? Brexit hasn’t even happened yet! But the Tories will ‘get it done’ and cause thousands more job losses.

How can you support a PM who said ‘fuck business’?

As people get poorer all around you, how can you think ‘yes, the Tories have done a sterling job here, I can trust them with the economy’?

If you bought into austerity, what’s changed that makes it okay for the government to spend public money now, when it wasn’t okay before?

How does any of this make sense to you?