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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be shit scared of BJ winning the next election?

754 replies

thentherewerefour · 06/12/2019 10:31

Not sure how everyone else is doing, but I am just increasingly terrified about the idea that BJ and the likes of Jacob Rees-Morgan, Ian Duncan Smith (god they are just so disgusting Angry) are going to win this election. Got family in Australia and this morning it was raining ash and people literally can't breathe. The Tories are going to do nothing, zero, nada about climate change. And when I look at my kids I just don't know how we are going to survive another five years. and don't get my started about the state of the kid's school - the teachers are doing their best, but the reality is it's a shit show bc of how many cuts they have had. Friends are going canvassing for Labour and me and DH are doing our bit too - but it all just feels surreal - BJ talks shit, tells lies, and has reinvented himself as "new" when the fucker has been IN GOVT for years. Any got any ideas on how we can turn this around?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
JulyKit · 07/12/2019 03:13

Re. 'antisemitism' in brief:
There have been antisemites in both main parties during the past few years. All revolting, but to be fair, the Tories have dealt more effectively with this than Labour at first did. (That's all I'm giving the Tories, certainly not saying they've got a better record than Labour in any other way.)
Labour were crap at dealing with antisemitism. So that's been thrown at Corbyn, and it's stuck. So the Tories milk it and milk it and milk it.
That's about the measure of, really.

bogginmacaroni · 07/12/2019 03:21

I'm terrified of another Tory government. They hate poor people. I love the Labour manifesto and it would give everyone a fair chance. 😪 There is so much poverty around.

JolieOBrien · 07/12/2019 05:29

@bogginmacroni

What do you mean by poor? I am not rich btw I do have properties but they do not make me much money just cost me loads of money when tenants wreck the houses and I have to repair them. I might just sell them after Brexit because they are costing me more money all the time. Also I have to pay tax on them which has increased which is another reason to get rid off them. I do feel sorry that I will have to evict my tenants some who have lived there for over 10 years

bogginmacaroni · 07/12/2019 05:37

JolieOBrien
Oh boohoo another whiney landlord. Vote Labour and then we can have more social housing and you can sell your properties then! You are rich if you have "properties"? You sound more than comfortable. Why shouldn't you pay tax on them? Smallest violin here.

JolieOBrien · 07/12/2019 05:39

Anyway I am off for the weekend now so enjoy your hateful little posts you two ...... who I believe rent properties or are perhaps drinking or on something by the sound of you both.

WorldEndingFire · 07/12/2019 05:48

Don't be scared, be organised and do something about it.

Go doorknocking in your nearest marginal, bundle and hand out leaflets, put posters up, talk to friends and family, take the day off on polling day and offer lifts to those who need them.

You aren't passive in this process, you can do your bit to change it.

www.mycampaignmap.com
events.labour.org.uk
volunteer.labour.org.uk
shop.labour.org.uk

JolieOBrien · 07/12/2019 05:51

@WorldEndingFire

That is what I am doing and I pleased to tell you Labour does not have the support it thinks it does. A lot of pensioners remember what living under a Labour government is like (Harold Wilson) and think Corbyn is old Labour and they do not want him in power.

JoyceJames · 07/12/2019 05:51

I don't want him to win. They are really, really right wing . I see even the press say they're hiding Jacob RM, as he's so far right.

JolieOBrien · 07/12/2019 05:52

I am pleased to tell you

right I am off ... catch up on Sunday bfn

SomeVelvetMorning · 07/12/2019 05:55

Of the 3 awful options available (Tory win, Labour win, Labour minority government propped up by the SNP) Boris is the least worst option.

It's not saying much but P.M Corbyn or P.M Corbyn with Sturgeon pulling his strings is much worse.

Swirls1111 · 07/12/2019 06:00

‘I'd rather give Corbyn a chance to prove me wrong than give Johnson another chance to prove me right‘

Well said

Dongdingdong · 07/12/2019 06:06

@thentherewerefour I do hope your family in Australia didn’t vote for Scott Morrison OP:

www.channel4.com/news/how-coal-mining-threatens-australias-great-barrier-reef

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/audio/2019/nov/13/scott-morrisons-crackdown-on-environmental-protests

sall74 · 07/12/2019 06:08

We already live under a Neo-liberal Corporatocracy/Oligarchy in this country, the only meaningless sham of a democratic process we have is getting to vote for the next Lib/Lab/Con puppet of the banks. the corps and the wealthy elite.. 5 years of BJ, JRM et al would just confirm that.

sall74 · 07/12/2019 06:18

How many decades have we now been hearing the Tory mantra of the fabled ''trickle down effect''?
(i.e. look after the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities and that wealth will trickle down the socio-economic scale).

How's that working out?

MinervaSaidThat · 07/12/2019 06:25

@lovemenorca

Got family in Australia and this morning it was raining ash and people literally can't breathe. The Tories are going to do nothing, zero, nada about climate change.

It worries me that someone who writes this even has the vote

Well the OP has a point. The intensity and frequency of bush fires is changing and Australia's average temperature is hotter than they have ever been. You can't prove climate change is causing more bush fires but you would have to be very stupid not to worry that it's a possibility.

MinervaSaidThat · 07/12/2019 06:27

Add message | Report | Message poster KidLorneRoll Fri 06-Dec-19 11:29:48
"I'm not voting for an anti-semite but a racist misogynist homophobe is totally fine."

Ha yes! And Corbyn's not even an anti-Semite. BJ is all of those things.

Milicentbystander72 · 07/12/2019 07:26

If anyone wants to know more about the 'anti-semitism thing' then I urge you to read even some of this document of evidence submitted to the EHRC.

It's not just about any sound-bite that JC has said (although there's a section on JC himself) but it's a huge amount of evidence complied about AS Semitic abuse at Labour meetings, Jewish members verbally and physically harassed, in meetings, conference and online - many as young as 18.

I've only got to page 4. It's not an easy read. It's big, serious and massively detailed.

It's really not just a simple "explain to me to AS thing'. You need to read!

Milicentbystander72 · 07/12/2019 07:26

Sorry here's the link Centrillion posted earlier (that most people ignored).

www.scribd.com/document/438367082/Redacted-JLM-Closing-Submission-to-the-EHRC

SubordinateThatClause · 07/12/2019 07:39

YANBU in the slightest! Anyone thinking that putting a lying, far right buffoon in number 10 is a good idea for this country needs to take a good long hard look at themselves, IMO. It is terrifying. I don't like Corbyn much either but at least he has integrity. BJ will dismantle this country to benefit his cronies. The likes of you and me will be screwed.

kikisparks · 07/12/2019 08:03

@RaymondStopThat that’s not true. The brexit party followed by the tories were the worst for green policies:

www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/climate-debate-party-manifestos-climate-change-nature-2/

Beware of any lies the MSM has told you and fact check for yourself.

Woodifer · 07/12/2019 08:14

Nope - the only hope for the NHS (if there is any given its current decimated state) is to get these Tories out. Vote tactically wherever you are to get rid of these death-dealing austerity mongers.

Woodifer · 07/12/2019 08:16

Jewish author Michael Rosen has this to say about anti-semitism in the Labour party:

I've met people who think that there are no Jews left in the Labour Party.

I’ve also met people who think that the Chief Rabbi is — in some way or another — in charge of, or a representative of all Jews in Britain.

Neither of these statements are true or anything like true.

There are several Jewish candidates for the Labour Party. There are thousands of Labour Party members who are Jewish. Several times in the media people have said that it’s impossible or “not safe” for Jews to stay in the Labour Party. It’s not impossible.

If the media had wanted to, they could have asked Jewish MPs, Jewish candidates in this election: “Is it impossible or unsafe for you to be in the Labour Party?” It has been dishonest of them to have not done that.

There are also rabbis who have either said that they will vote Labour and/or have expressed great concern over the way Jewish religious leaders (Rabbi Romain and the Chief Rabbi) have intervened in this election.

You can read about these rabbis in the Jewish Chronicle online: Rabbi Danny Rich and Rabbi Howard Cooper.

This tells us that within the religious part of Jewish life, there are people who are worried about how religious leaders have politicised religion. In the past this has been levelled at Muslims for having brought in “communalist politics.”

Commentators like Nick Cohen were particularly scathing about this at the time of, say, George Galloway being elected.

The silence in the mass media about the dangers of a religious group saying: “Don’t vote for party X” are very great.

Cooper could see a danger that it could invite persecution.

In this particular election, it is also particularly dangerous because it is a two-horse race. Saying: “Don’t vote Labour” is in effect saying: “Let’s have a victory for the Tories.”

This is no surprise, as the Chief Rabbi welcomed the election of Boris Johnson to the leadership of the Tory Party and blessed him.

Johnson is a bigot and a liar. He and the Tories have been quite content to snuggle up to extreme right-wing and anti-semitic parties in Europe, like Victor Orban in Hungary.

He has also kept quiet about the pattern of anti-semitism coming from Jacob Rees-Mogg, who has talked of his Jewish colleagues in the House of Commons as “illuminati” and questioned whether they “understand” the constitution.

He has done the “Soros jibe” (this is an anti-semitic trope about the financier George Soros being deemed to be an international wheeler-dealer), retweeted Alternative fur Deutschland — the far-right party in Germany — and had dinner with the far-right British organisation, the Traditional Britain Group.

There are other incidents of anti-semitism in the Tory Party that Johnson has “kept silent” about (Crispin Blunt, Suella Braverman, Toby Young).

Yet, the Chief Rabbi is in effect entrusting those who regard him as their figurehead to a Johnson Tory government.

For clarity’s sake, the Chief Rabbi may “speak for” a majority of Jews in Britain — but he does not “represent” them.

He is the leader of the United Synagogue, which has a congregation of around 40,000. According to the Board of Deputies, there are 284,000 British Jews. Half of us are affiliated to synagogues, half of us are not.

In all the surveys of Jewish opinion, I have never been sure of how the survey of the 142,000 non-religious Jews is done. How do they find us?

One survey created a “panel,” having found secular Jews by focusing on areas where there is a high Jewish population and people having “Jewish names.”

Ahem, ahem — apart from Hebrew and Hebraic names, there are no Jewish names.

Most Jews in this country have German or Polish names (if they — we — are “Ashkanzim”) or Sephardi names (which may be, for example, Italian or Spanish) and/or we have English names.

What’s more, since the arrival of many EU citizens, there are many Germans and Poles who have names that before were considered to be Jewish, like “Meyer” — a standard German name that some Jews have.

The surveys may perhaps be accurate, but this method of polling looks decidedly dodgy. I have challenged this many times on Twitter and no-one has successfully defended it so far.

I have been asked several times to come on the radio and TV to talk about supporting Jeremy Corbyn. I have refused. I have said to the producer: “Do the honest thing, talk to a Labour-voting rabbi, or a Jewish Labour candidate and a Jewish Labour Party member.”

The reason I do that is because, firstly, I can’t answer any questions that the interviewers ask all the time, like: “Is enough being done? Are Jews being bullied in meetings etc” — and I don’t want to screw up this matter by appearing on programmes and saying: “I don’t know…” or “some of my best friends are Jewish and they tell me…” It’s a trap.

And, secondly, the times I have appeared, for example, on Al-Jazeera, the method of dealing with me (or Miriam Margolyes or Alexei Sayle) is to say that we represent no-one.

At one level, I have to say that that is true. I have never pretended and can’t pretend and would never pretend that I “represent” any other Jews.

For the record, for people who are not Jewish: I am no less Jewish than the Chief Rabbi.

I was brought up knowing that I was Jewish, and have participated in all my life (read, studied, reflected on, been particularly interested in) secular Jewish activities to do with Jewish writers, artists and Jewish history, and have of course reflected on this in my writing in hundreds of different ways.

I see myself as a poet and performer who has absorbed many traditions one of which is “aggadic” — that of Jewish story-telling.

When I’ve said these things on Twitter, it has invited Jews and non-Jews to call me a “kapo” (a Jewish concentration camp guard), a “used Jew” (that one from the editor of Jewish News), someone who “dons the cloak of Jewishness” (a Jewish DJ and actor), one of the “useful Jewish idiots” (from the commentator Dan Hodges), “a cheerleader for Soros” (from Lee Harpin, political editor of the Jewish Chronicle), and a plea to the BBC to not employ me to present the show Word of Mouth (from the QC Simon Myerson and the campaigner against anti-semitism (!) Euan Philips).

Clearly some people think that the best way to combat anti-semitism is to be anti-semitic.

Further: the whole question of anti-semitism has been fogged by an unknowing or unwilling lack of clarity over distinctions between slurs, prejudice, bias, discrimination, persecution, incitement to anti-semitic violence and then violence itself.

There are times when you might have thought that British Jews were experiencing a pogrom.

The minimum requirements for a claim that there is a “problem” in a given area (eg anti-semitism in the Labour Party) is that it is distinctly and measurably worse than in other places or in society as a whole.

If that hasn’t been shown — and it hasn’t been — it’s not a Labour Party problem, it’s a societal problem.

I’ve known Jeremy Corbyn for 30 years. He is no anti-semite. He has put his neck on the line hundreds of times in opposing racism, anti-semitism, far-right fascism and Holocaust denial.

For the record, the sudden loss of Jewish support for Labour came when Ed Miliband was leader, who the Jewish Chronicle described as “toxic” for Jewish voters.

Miliband is Jewish. It was his support for recognition of Palestine before negotiations that did for him, they said. Being Jewish was no shield against this hostility.

Ask me, who am I “safer” with: a Johnson-led government with its record of the “hostile environment,” persecution of the Windrush generation and persistent anti-semitic jibes from leading party members or this Labour Party — and I will say Labour every time.

But I don’t look at the election purely through a Jewish prism. It is a clear class issue: a Tory government will continue to ravage the lives of of working-class people through attacks on wages, public services and the disabled. A Labour government will halt these and start to reverse them.

World business — “capitalism” — is in crisis: huge levels of debt, massive “productivity” problems in companies’ frenzy to compete with each other, a slide towards “economic nationalism” (the Steve Bannon philosophy) and Johnson is riding the Bannon bus which is driven by the US.

The US is desperate to create a bogus free-trade world, which in actual fact is a US-protectionist world. Johnson is backing this as a “solution.”

I’m voting Labour."

Trewser · 07/12/2019 08:17

Michael Rosen is a bore.

Milicentbystander72 · 07/12/2019 08:21

I actually know Micheal Rosen professionally. I respect him in his career, but really he's just one Jewish person. He's not an authority of everything Jewish within the Labour Party.

redcarbluecar · 07/12/2019 08:30

Not read everything, but yes am scared. BJ is one of the most dishonest public figures I can remember in my lifetime, and the fact that people are prepared to go along with his shit and empty rhetoric because of this overriding Brexit obsession is dispiriting too. I wouldn’t vote Tory anyway, but this government’s awfulness just seems a bit ‘next level’.

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