To think that only posh people say Father Christmas?!

[charliesp]

And everyone else says Santa?

I say Santa but my posh DH and all his family and posh friends say Father Christmas.

Anyone else noticed this? Or AIBU?

I think this thread makes it quite clear that it isn't about class at all.

People who do not read the full thread say Father Christmas. People who do say Santa.

That’s because for decades U.K. TV programmes have been English- centric. It’s only fairly recently that this has changed. For example, when I was at school, the kids tv programmes in the summer holidays never started until the English schools were on holiday. For years we would see the beginning of Robinson Crusoe, but never the end.
The resentment never goes away Frances And Scotland might as well not have existed as far as Blue Peter was concerned.

Holiday programming was agonising. A glorious week and a half of holiday shows, then four and a half weeks of presenters whooping on about summer fun while we all had to go to school.

We say Santa and PIL say Father Christmas.

You do surprise us.

I am all amazement.

Father Christmas here always, Santa is an Americanism

@slinkysaluki for fuck sake. Seriously. If I read that one more time I might say something worthy of a ban.

Father Christmas here always, Santa is an Americanism

Irish and Scottish people use the term Santa, but it's not something I have ever paid attention to

Clearly.

Anyway, I'm glad you've got 'better things to do' it's a shame that one of those things isn't to acknowledge that you were a little bit insulting.

Father Christmas here always, Santa is an Americanism

I'm actually considering contacting MNHQ to ask them to remove this thread on the grounds that it's detrimental to my health ...

This is hilarious

@SpiderCharlotte me too but for some reason I just can’t help peeking at it. 😀

@Windyone Neither can I! 😂😂😂

I call him Saint Nicholas, really, I do
Saint Nicholas, who ate all the pies the fat bas...I'm upper class

I've only read the first and last bit of the thread (it's just too long), so I apologise if I'm repeating something already posted; I'm posting here because I imagine quite a few people who read this might have done the same.

Father Christmas, St Nicholas and Santa Claus are really three different people. The only thing missing from @Fakeflowersaremynewnormal 's excellent overview is why the 19th century New Yorkers had such a big thing about Sinterklaas.

I guess most people know that New York had once been called New Amsterdam (or Nieuw Amsterdam or something maybe?). The [old] Amsterdammers had always given gifts to each other on 6 December (St Nicholas's Day) because St Nicholas was patron saint of Amsterdam (and of sailors btw).

In the 18th century in the states, resentment towards the British army, with their dedication to St George, moved some New Yorkers decided to form a society of St Nicholas, basically to annoy the British. One member was a mad rich man called John Pintard who had a massive thing for St Nicholas; he founded the New York Historical Society with St Nicholas as its patron. Washington Irving satirised the NY Historical Society by writing a spoof history of New York, poking fun at its romanticism by harping on about the city's supposed Dutch history and St Nicholas's supposed role in the city's development - all just satire of course - published on St Nicholas's day in 1809. It was a best-seller on both sides of the Atlantic. Irving was the originator of Christmas stockings, the flying sleigh, coming down chimneys secretly one night a year to give gifts - all just meant to make fun of Pintard. But everyone loved it, and took it seriously. Then Clement Clarke Moore wrote 'The Night Before Christmas' in 1823 and the gift-giving was transferred from 6 December to Christmas Eve.

Voila Santa Claus, who is, in all the characteristics we most associate with him, entirely American, and mostly the fruit of Washington Irving's imagination, with help from Pintard and Moore. There are lots of celebrations of St Nicholas around the 'Old World' - he was always a very popular saint - but the 'source' St Ncholas is a heretic-bashing bishop from 3rd-century Turkey, so he is portrayed differently in different places around Europe.

The traditional English gift-giving day was New Year's Day, not Christmas Day. The old English Father Christmas didn't give gifts, and he wasn't associated with children, because he was nothing to do with St Nicholas (who is patron saint of both those things). He was just a personification of the spirit of that time of year, like Jack Frost maybe. He was merged with Santa Claus in England during the late 19th century as FakeFlowers says, and was soon indistinguishable from Santa Claus, except the English still feel vaguely like they should use his old name, because the origin of Santa Claus is colonial brit-baiting.

There's a very good website about all of this here - www.stnicholascenter.org/who-is-st-nicholas/origin-of-santa

Sorry for being long-winded!

My Scottish DH says "Father Christmas". It is why I married him.

We'd all be very drunk if we put 'Santa is American (and I haven't RTFT)' in a MN drinking game.

Chemenger: 'It should be compulsory for all Mumsnet users to read a list of common errors to be avoided. This would include:

Halloween is not American
Santa is not American
England is not the entire U.K.
London is not the entirety of England
Ireland and Northern Ireland are not the same country
People in the U.K. do not all speak with the same accent or dialect and yours is not more correct than theirs.
Mom is not American, people in parts of the U.K. use it too
Mummy is not infantile, adults use it in parts of the U.K.
Etc

Then people stating threads based on these misconceptions could be forced to reread the list and we could all be spared these recurring threads.'

Too bloody right! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

PS OMG I've just realised it's St Nicholas's day today!

"My Scottish DH says "Father Christmas". It is why I married him."

I wonder what he saw in you?

Halloween is not American
Santa is not American
England is not the entire U.K.
London is not the entirety of England
Ireland and Northern Ireland are not the same country
People in the U.K. do not all speak with the same accent or dialect and yours is not more correct than theirs.
Mom is not American, people in parts of the U.K. use it too
Mummy is not infantile, adults use it in parts of the U.K.
Etc

AMEN!

I would have added:
American things are not intrinsically bad, perhaps.

YABU

Not posh. Hate Santa as so American. Always said Father Christmas

Oh yes it is St Nicholas day! I'm glad I spent some time reading about him and his various alter egos. Despite some questionable posts this has been a very interesting thread.