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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Not sure how to answer tenant’s question

232 replies

Silverflake · 04/12/2019 07:51

I’m renting my flat out from today, the tenants (couple, 2 bed flat) are moving in this afternoon. I’ve not been a landlord before so this is all new to me.

I’ve had a message from the letting agent today: “The tenant reached out to us asking once they move in and been there for a couple of weeks how it would work with having friends over and if you allowed them how long it for them to stay?”

I’m not sure how to answer this. I rented myself for 20 years and it wouldn’t have occurred to me to ask this - I had friends or relatives to stay on odd occasions for a night or two, maybe every few weeks.

I wouldn’t want people staying there all the time as I have to think of my neighbours downstairs (small block of 4 flats) and additional noise. And wear and tear on the flat to a certain extent I suppose? Do I even have the right to specify this though? And if so, what is reasonable? Are they trying to get me to agree to a certain amount so that it becomes a regular arrangement/partial sublet thing and then I can’t complain at a later date? Or am I overthinking it?

WIBU to say they can have one or two people to stay no more than once a week? Really not sure what the done thing is here so any advice would be great, thanks

OP posts:
ElluesPichulobu · 04/12/2019 08:24

include in your reply that whilst normal hospitality to friends and relatives will clearly occasionally include allowing people to stay overnight and they have every right to do so, it being their home, no individual not specifically named on the tenancy agreement may be allowed to become habitually resident either full- or part-time at the address and no sub-letting of any kind will be allowed. insurance and mortgage terms and conditions would be breached if they were to do so, and so you would have no choice but to terminate the tenancy if this is not respected.

having specific limits on the number of nights a guest can stay is not reasonable as the tenancy agreement means that this is their home, and having guests to stay is a normal part of life.

Original poster
Silverflake · 04/12/2019 08:27

Yes they will have regular inspections carried out by the agents.

How does this sound as a reply to the agent’s email?

Hi,

I would need clarification from the tenant of what they had in mind before answering that question. I would not be in agreement with anyone staying long term/a lodger arrangement certainly. And definitely no subletting or paying guest/s as this would be in breach of the contract.

Short term, infrequent overnight visits from one or two friends/family members would probably be ok but as I said, I need clarification from the tenants as to exactly what they are asking for before being able to give an answer.

In any case, they need to be mindful of additional noise with regard to the neighbours.

As managing agents are you able to advise me regarding the law and the contract?

OP posts:
Original poster
Silverflake · 04/12/2019 08:29

X posted with @ElluesPichulobu - thanks, the bit about insurance and mortgage terms and conditions is important, I’ll include that

OP posts:
AliceLittle · 04/12/2019 08:37

It's usually in the contract. For example in my tenancy agreement it says I have have up to 2 guests stay for 3 concurrent days on no more than 3 occurrences within a 28 day period. Plus loads of other stuff about not sub letting, air BnB etc.

Booboostwo · 04/12/2019 08:39

I would only put quotes from the contract in my reply, anything else risks committing you to things you may not want to commit to.

Original poster
Silverflake · 04/12/2019 08:40

Ok thanks that’s all really helpful

OP posts:
churchandstate · 04/12/2019 08:40

I would just draw their attention to the relevant clauses about no sub-letting and their responsibility for damage over normal wear and tear. Then tell them that as the tenants, the rest is their responsibility, but as the landlord you would reserve the right to give notice if you felt their use of the property was anti-social or likely to result in damage. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Brimful · 04/12/2019 08:44

They are either very diligent and don't want to do anything not specifically authorised or are trying to get you to sign off on sub-letting by the back door

This. It's a very odd question, my first thought was they plan to sub-let/Airbnb.

I'd advise you say no to extended visits due to insurance coverage and limit the amount of people permitted. But legally there's nothing you can enforce, they'll do what they want.

How big is the property and how many tenants are there? Sorry if I've missed this info.

I would strongly, strongly advise doing 3 monthly inspections yourself. Letting agents are shit and won't pick up on anything important. Check stuff like number of toothbrushes, shoes, etc for clues if it is being used.

And check Airbnb, local ads, Facebook Marketplace and Gumtree/Spareroom.com to see if it's listed once they move in!

churchandstate · 04/12/2019 08:48

As a tenant there is no way I would agree to three monthly inspections. These people seem to be being very respectful of you, OP, by trying to work out what you would find reasonable. Be reasonable. If one of them has their mum to stay for a week over Christmas, are they not entitled to do so? If one of them has a mate who needs somewhere to crash for a few nights, is that really anything for you to worry about? Rent your property to someone you have confidence in, our insurance and a contract in place, then let them get on with it and enjoy the property in peace.

Longfacenow · 04/12/2019 08:51

from one or two friends/family members

As a tenant if you started saying i couldnt have my three nephews stay for a weekend I'd pull out and say you're trying to add in set terms after contract so I'm leaving.

Your agent may be crap/playing you. The tenant may have been trying to pon you down on this for days or weeks.

Inliverpool1 · 04/12/2019 08:53

I would never rent a property without 3 monthly inspections having learnt the hard way, and yes do them yourself

Brimful · 04/12/2019 08:57

As a tenant there is no way I would agree to three monthly inspections.

Three or six monthly inspections are standard, when I was a tenant I was fine with 3 monthly inspections.

My tenants start on a 6-month AST and have 2 inspections during this, then if everything is going well they change to 6 monthly and are offered as long a contract as they'd like. It's always worked for me and my tenants :)

Rent your property to someone you have confidence in, our insurance and a contract in place

This! Do your own checks and references, you can do this via the NLA. I highly recommend becoming a member - keeping informed of all the current legislation as well as learning your responsibilities is vital.

ReanimatedSGB · 04/12/2019 08:59

I think (unless your landlord lives with you) as a tenant it is your business and no one else's if you occasionally put up a mate overnight or (if dating) have a partner to stay over sometimes.

churchandstate · 04/12/2019 09:00

Three or six monthly inspections are standard, when I was a tenant I was fine with 3 monthly inspections.

I have rented in several places across London and never been inspected more than annually, actually. I wouldn’t mind every 6 months but every 3 would interfere with my enjoyment of the property and I wouldn’t rent from someone under those conditions.

MistyCloud · 04/12/2019 09:03

@Silverflake

I would defo be saying no to this. Or say, maximum 2 nights stay in any given calendar month. If they have family and friends wanting to visit for longer than that, they can stay in a Travelodge.

As some people have already said, this sounds a bit shady because most people would not even consider asking such a question if they just had friends or family stopping over once or twice a month for a night or two.

Did the tenants give the agent a hug when they reached out to them by the way? Wink

EmpressLesbianInChair · 04/12/2019 09:05

Three or six monthly inspections are standard, when I was a tenant I was fine with 3 monthly inspections.

Like Brimful's tenants, I had two inspections in the first six months and then moved to six-monthly. Inspections mean the tenant working from home if they can, taking annual leave if they can't, or rearranging weekend plans in order to be in.

TheOrigFV45 · 04/12/2019 09:07

Yeah, I would change agents purely based on them writing 'reaching out'

FFS.

newdeer · 04/12/2019 09:08

I'd just say they are welcome to have guests but strictly forbidden to sublet or have an extra person move in for any longer than 21 days as this would break the rules of their tenancy agreement.

rhubarbcrumbles · 04/12/2019 09:12

Why am I just rolling my eyes at the phrase "the tenant 'reached out' to us" from the letting agent ?????!!!!

So am I, I hate it.

OP, just get your letting agent to confirm that occasional visitors like you'd have in your home is OK but that subletting and long term visitors are not.

superfandango · 04/12/2019 09:15

Are AirBnB customers not referred to as “guests”? Stick to what is written in the contract about no subletting etc and avoid any ambiguous wording.

Seeingadistance · 04/12/2019 09:17

The reaching out is quite unpleasant.

thatdamnwoman · 04/12/2019 09:23

I note that they are a couple and they've rented a 2-bed flat which makes me wonder whether they're hoping to sublet or have B+B guests or have family to stay for long periods.

If you're letting through an agent the agreement should specify no subletting or commercial use of the property and you need to check that it does. I'd ask them to give me an idea of who they may be inviting to stay and for how long.

20 years ago I had a flat in London and the two-bedroom flat above mine was rented by a nice couple from Eastern Europe whose relatives would come over and live there for months at a time. There were often six people sharing the place. The landlord knew nothing about it until I and other residents complained about the noise and the fact that their relatives would ring our front door bells to allow them into the building.

mumwon · 04/12/2019 09:27

all together now - become a member of a landlord association like RLA they will give you legal advice & the you can claim against tax for membership & there is a forum for specific experiences of other LL

Kazzyhoward · 04/12/2019 09:31

Legally can I specify this?

Ask the agent - it's what you're paying them for. What does the contract say?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 04/12/2019 09:31

Could you post on the legal board to see how best to respond? Like you I'd be worried about what words to use in my response in case they came back to bite me at a later date.

I think I would do as Medievalist suggests.