Not sure how to answer tenant’s question

[Silverflake]

I’m renting my flat out from today, the tenants (couple, 2 bed flat) are moving in this afternoon. I’ve not been a landlord before so this is all new to me.

I’ve had a message from the letting agent today: “The tenant reached out to us asking once they move in and been there for a couple of weeks how it would work with having friends over and if you allowed them how long it for them to stay?”

I’m not sure how to answer this. I rented myself for 20 years and it wouldn’t have occurred to me to ask this - I had friends or relatives to stay on odd occasions for a night or two, maybe every few weeks.

I wouldn’t want people staying there all the time as I have to think of my neighbours downstairs (small block of 4 flats) and additional noise. And wear and tear on the flat to a certain extent I suppose? Do I even have the right to specify this though? And if so, what is reasonable? Are they trying to get me to agree to a certain amount so that it becomes a regular arrangement/partial sublet thing and then I can’t complain at a later date? Or am I overthinking it?

WIBU to say they can have one or two people to stay no more than once a week? Really not sure what the done thing is here so any advice would be great, thanks

[OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg]

When I was a tenant in various private rentals, my lease agreements all expressly forbade subletting, using the property for commercial purposes or having any individual not named on the agreement to stay for longer than 21 nights consecutively during the period of the agreement (which varied from six months to two years across the different properties). That seems fairly standard and should cover everything you're worried about while still giving your tenants the freedom to enjoy their home, including having friends and family to stay occasionally.

[carolinelucaseshandbag]

Oh they are so going to be subletting that spare room to a lodger!
This is really odd, lots of naivety all round. Speak to the agents, quote the law, and be very clear!

[Silverflake]

Thanks to pp re joining a landlord association, good advice, I’ll do that. Thanks everyone for your help

[Brimful]

That's great, OP. As I mentioned, the NLA have been absolutely fantastic, especially when I was starting out as a LL. Best of luck :)

[DonKeyshot]

Were your tenants 'living in council housing with family' before or did they live in council housing and subsequently live with family?

If the latter I would be concerned that they may have been evicted from council accomodation for noise nuisance or rent arrears. If not, unless one/both of them work from home I would be concerned that they want a 2-bed flat in order to sublet.

Have the agents vetted this couple thoroughly and have you seen their references?

[churchandstate]

This thread is so paranoid! As a tenant I have twice rented a two bed flat, not because I wanted to sublet but - quite simply - because I like a bit of space. Based on the OP’s tenants asking a simple question about guests, they are suddenly Air B&B sub-letters who have been cast out of their council accommodation. 🙄

[NomNomNomNom]

I wonder what they're planning.... I rented for years in many different countries and never asked permission to have guests stay over but I wouldn't have actually moved other people into the house (with the exception of my first DC I guess!).

[GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER]

I'd think they're wanting to sublet, too.
Weekends or a week max for friends staying is IMO But certainly not whole weeks on a regular or frequent - and def. not on a paying - basis. As a LL I'd say OK on that basis occasionally. I know mine have friends staying for the odd weekend and that's fine by me.

If e.g. there's a combi boiler designed for a certain size of property/number of residents, then more than that number regularly putting demands on it (showers etc.) will (I have been told) not do it any good.

And ditto to 'reached out' !! WTF is wrong with 'asked'? TBH I'd be wary of a LA who can't use plain English!

[Silverflake]

Yes I’m absolutely not assuming that they’re out to screw me over, they were referenced and checked and all that, there were no previous issues uncovered or anything. I was just a bit surprised at the question as having guests to stay is normal and not something I’d have asked about as a tenant myself. I just want to get a balance between being fair and reasonable towards them and protecting myself

[NomNomNomNom]

It could also be though that they're just first time renters having just moved out from lodger type situations and don't know the drill and are being extremely diligent.

[Silverflake]

But if they were planning on subletting would they have even asked about people staying in the first place? I feel like they would more likely just quietly get on with it and try not to attract attention?

[Silverflake]

Yes @NomNomNomNom it could well be

[MistyCloud]

I wonder what they're planning.... I rented for years in many different countries and never asked permission to have guests stay over but I wouldn't have actually moved other people into the house (with the exception of my first DC I guess!).

Yeah this. ^ Anyone who thinks it's OK, or 'normal,' is probably the type who would sublet/use the spare room for Air BnB.

[OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg]

Blimey, I never knew some people were so suspicious about tenants wanting to have an extra bedroom! Depending on where you live/want to live, there isn't always a glut of single bedroom flats (or properties with the precise amount of bedrooms for the number of people renting) and if you can afford the rent, it's nice to have a bit more space for your stuff. There is only DH and I here and our last two rentals were both three-bed houses, because that was what was mostly available when we were looking and we could afford the rent. We didn't do any subletting or AirBnB-ing, we just enjoyed having the extra space and occasionally having friends and family to stay for a weekend / Christmas / few days here and there a handful of times a year.

[MistyCloud]

@Silverflake

But if they were planning on subletting would they have even asked about people staying in the first place? I feel like they would more likely just quietly get on with it and try not to attract attention?

No. They are more likely to ask, not less, so when there ARE loads of people about, they will have covered themselves.

You must think it's a bit 'off' otherwise you wouldn't have posted on here about it, asking random strangers if it's OK/normal, or if it's a bit odd.

Subletting? Maybe not. Setting up an Air BnB? Possibly.

I would say no to their 'reaching out' and asking for what they've asked for.....

[sam221]

I would advise against letting to these tenants, this is their way of getting an agreement from you to AirBnb or sub-let.
Trust me getting them out afterwards will be expensive and tiresome, even with insurance.
Based on my experience, this is not a normal question to ask on the day of signing a contract.
Good luck with it all and make sure you have comprehensive insurance in place.

[53rdWay]

Be clear about no commercial operations. But don't be suspicious of them for even asking. Maybe they're out to get you, but maybe they're people who have had experiences beforehand of landlords putting ridiculous restrictions in place around guests staying and are just trying to stay on your good side. As the several pp who are telling you to limit number of guests and days indicate, it's not unusual.

I've had landlords beforehand tell me I wasn't allowed to have any overnight guests at all without getting their advance written permission. I just ignored them, but someone less jaded in the ways of amateur landlords might have done it and expected the same from the next landlord.

[MistyCloud]

@OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg

Blimey, I never knew some people were so suspicious about tenants wanting to have an extra bedroom! Depending on where you live/want to live, there isn't always a glut of single bedroom flats (or properties with the precise amount of bedrooms for the number of people renting) and if you can afford the rent, it's nice to have a bit more space for your stuff.


Did you read the OP's first post properly? They didn't say they have an issue with a tenant having extra bedrooms.

They said....

I’ve had a message from the letting agent today: “The tenant reached out to us asking once they move in and been there for a couple of weeks how it would work with having friends over and if you allowed them how long it for them to stay.

Which is quite different to what you are saying/implying they said!

They asked about 'friends' staying, and asked how long they could stay for. Why would anyone ask that if they weren't planning on having people stay? (probably quite often by the sound of things!)

The tenant didn't ask if it was OK to have an extra bedroom!

[MistyCloud]

Posted too soon.

I agree with many others here. It sounds like they may be planning Air BnB.

[Pollaidh]

I'd ask exactly what scenarios they envisage, and stamp down on anything that sounds like subletting. However, if they have family abroad - China, India etc - then due to visas, costs etc, it makes more sense to do say a 3 week visit every few years, instead of shorter. I've had friends who have had their Chinese mother-in-law come over and stay for a long Christmas holiday, or to help with a new baby, but she only comes every few years. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I've also rented 2 bedroom houses before, when there was only me, or me and DH. The spare room was useful to work from home and for occasional guests.

[viccat]

I think many of us are suspicious because it's happened to us... I had tenants who claimed it was just friends from abroad staying temporarily but neighbours contacted me to complain about extra people living there as they were receiving post to the address as well... (converted building so all post went to a communal area). In the end it turned out there was a family living there, none of them were on the rental agreement, and the original tenants had all moved out! Luckily it didn't take too long to get them to leave but I'm very cautious now.

[Rezie]

I've been offered a tenancy agreement that had very specific rules on guests. I didn't sign it and got a new flat. I'm fine with rules that no other person can live that e and I cannot collect money. But I wouldn't be allowed to have my family from another country stay with me for more than 2 days? No thanks. I know the landlord would not have found out but it raised a red flag.

They either want to take a lodger or they have previously had a bad experience with overbearing landlord. I vote for not determining anyhting specific. Short term guests allowed and they cannot profit from guests staying over.

[LukeGossIsSaner]

Can you get 'No subletting/AirBnB/Letting for any type of payment' put in the contract?

[DobbyTheHouseElk]

I think I’d be very cautious.

How regularly does your LA do inspections?

I have been caught out before. Supposed to be 2 adults and a baby living in the property. But beds and mattresses in every room. So at a conservative guess I had 8-9 adults in the property. No idea if it was sub letting or traffickers, but I’d really advise caution.

I didn’t know anything about this til the property was experiencing major damage issues. The wear and tear cost me thousands. It was a short let, but something was very wrong.

[SunniDay]

Hi OP,
I wouldn't be drawn on trying to specify how many night a guest can stay - it wouldn't be enforceable anyway.

Simply say they may have visitors to stay in keeping with their "quiet enjoyment" of the property. (tenants are legally entitled to quiet enjoyment of their property).

And yes agree with PP to remind them that the property must not be let out/sub let or advertised for letting by them. (Inc no air b and b).

Currently a tenancy can be ended by serving a section 21 (and going to court) for no reason in a "no fault" eviction - so if you find the tenants are acting in an unreasonable manner you can serve notice after the fixed term of their tenancy (and at least 6 months) without having to prove any terms have been broken.