Not sure how to answer tenant’s question

[Silverflake]

I’m renting my flat out from today, the tenants (couple, 2 bed flat) are moving in this afternoon. I’ve not been a landlord before so this is all new to me.

I’ve had a message from the letting agent today: “The tenant reached out to us asking once they move in and been there for a couple of weeks how it would work with having friends over and if you allowed them how long it for them to stay?”

I’m not sure how to answer this. I rented myself for 20 years and it wouldn’t have occurred to me to ask this - I had friends or relatives to stay on odd occasions for a night or two, maybe every few weeks.

I wouldn’t want people staying there all the time as I have to think of my neighbours downstairs (small block of 4 flats) and additional noise. And wear and tear on the flat to a certain extent I suppose? Do I even have the right to specify this though? And if so, what is reasonable? Are they trying to get me to agree to a certain amount so that it becomes a regular arrangement/partial sublet thing and then I can’t complain at a later date? Or am I overthinking it?

WIBU to say they can have one or two people to stay no more than once a week? Really not sure what the done thing is here so any advice would be great, thanks

My former tenant had a “friend” to stay (without asking) and it actually turned out that the “friend” put a double bed into the living room and the two of them started entertaining punters.

I agree with AtillatheHun (never thought I would say that tbh...)

Hopefully they are just asking about having mates over but it does sound like they may want to sub let / air bnb. Say infrequent short term visits from friends and family are fine but expressly exclude any commercial arrangement such as but not limited to air bnb

I would also add a time limit "no longer than x days". Some people I know are effectively sub letting to "long term guests"....

Who stays in my home is nothing to do with the landlord as long as I am not receiving payment for it. Same goes for your tenants, I’d never ask my LL that it’s none of their business as long as I pay rent and council tax then it is my home therefore I dictate who comes over and how long for

Yeah, right😂
One tenant causes a lot less wear and tear in my flat (not YOURS, just because you are paying rent for it) than 2+. Who do you expect to pay for that?

And as for “dictating”, you can dictate when you actually own the place 😂

I have heard everything now.

No, you can’t specify guests unless it’s a pet!

Don’t be a landlord if you’re that controlling. You’re renting a home not a b&b.

Unless they’re a lodger you have no say over this unless they’re subletting. You take the rent, you have their bond. Look after your tenants and you’ll look after your business!

I would ask them how long their friends would be staying for if they say x amount speak to the agents as you dont mind friends staying for a weekend or a week but say a month is a bit long.

Strangle your agent, now, for using the "reaching out" phrase.

Slightly more benevolently, I would be changing agents when the contract comes up for renewal. I couldn't pay anyone who communicated in cliches.

I let out multiple properties, and you have had lots of good advice here, so will not blether on any more!

@Silverflake, most of the experienced landlords here are saying this is ringing alarm bells. I'm neither tenant nor landlord but our daughter has rented at uni and now rents in a large city. They've always had contracts that include the three Ps: no parties, posters, or pets.

I'd take cautionary advice from others here and in specialist landlord groups; I'd guard against being taken for a ride. Getting difficult tenants out is incredibly difficult and expensive.

But you cannot enforce a contract that says 'no parties' - at least not for a standard tenancy.

You really can't.

You can ride roughshod over students and people who are too scared/ignorant to question what their rights are, but you cannot enforce a term in a contract that is not legal. That would include terms like 'no parties'. I'm not at all sure where you'd stand with trying to say how many nights people can have visitors (I literally don't know; I'm not being rhetorical).

But it worries me that a minority of people seem to think being a landlord means saying whatever you like to your tenants.

Unless your letting agent is incompetent, the tenant will have signed the contract before moving in. If the contract has specific limits, tell the tenant that. If the contract speaks in more general terms tell them that, and advise about what you would consider reasonable but being sure to use language that doesn't constrain you in future.

But with the contract signed, you're on shaky grounds if you try and slap on additional restrictions afterwards. For example if the contract doesn't say anything about subletting, Citizens Advice says that for a fixed-term AST the tenant can sublet but for a periodic they can't.

What has the landlord come back with?

I’d be a little wary, at least. I’ve been a tenant and a landlord (at one point both simultaneously as I’d had to relocate for work and rented my house out!) and a lodger. I came across rather a lot of lodgings advertised which were two bedroom flats, with one couple in one of the bedrooms and looking for another person or couple as lodgers. Sometimes the first couple would have one or two children also in the two bedroom flat. Incredibly crowded, but common in areas where housing is expensive and possibly hard to find?

@Silverflake

How big is the flat and how many friends? I would be worried about the noise level if it is small flat because it might disturb other flats and you would not want the police called out over Christmas.

You put the restrictions on that are present in the contract.

If it limits guests - that is your answer.
If it says no guests unless permission - that is your answer
If it says nothing at all about guests - then there are no restrictions

You cannot make up terms after the contract is agreed.

Definitely sounds like they’re planning to AirBnB and are covering themselves.

And to PPs who say you have no control over guests, they’re wrong, you absolutely do. Nearly all tenancy agreements include a clause prohibiting the property being used by anyone other than the named tenants. It invalidates your insurance and mortgage and if you have two or more adults who are not related most local authorities require you to have a HMO licence.

@Silverflake they can have guests to stay for no more than 3 weeks, if they stay for longer than this they need to be added to the tenancy agreement as a license to occupy. Sounds like maybe you should get it managed by an agent for the first 12 months until you've learnt the ropes

Maybe a family member has asked to come and stay for too long, and they actually want to use you as an excuse to say 'no'?

A third person would incur an increase in rent?

Why? Surely rent is payable on what a property is worth, not how many people live there?

It could be they plan to sublet/have a pal move in till they’re on their feet.. or if they have family overseas the MIL is coming to stay for 6months to make sure they’re settling. Or it could be that like our council guests were only allowed if they spent no more than 3nights per week (rarely enforced but that’s the rules) and they’re being super careful.

However I haven’t a fecking clue how you’d police “no one sleeping on the sofa” I’d have been flung out my own flat, utility cupboard in bedroom, night shift back to back n one uniform.. much easier to kip on the sofa and let the washer dryer do it’s thing.

I work for a few landlords, I believe their maximum is 4 nights a month.
I would say something like no more than two nights a week and not for payment/no subletting. Surely the agents set up a contract and something around this subject should be in the contract.

Did I really just read 'it's not their home just because they pay rent...you can dictate what you want....'

Well, actually, no you can't....it IS their home just as long as they adhere to the rules and regs they've signed up to- if not then obviously it'll be addressed....I wouldn't worry OP, you have an agent, they've asked about having guests, so at least your aware should there be a problem.

I wouldn't have even asked when I rented, seeing as though I was paying off my landlords mortgage +++, kept the property immaculate and followed some outrageous rules (make sure the washing machine has finished its cycle before leaving the property unattended....ensure all appliances are switched off at the mains......made nipping to tesco a ball-ache....and yes, that wasnt 'if your away for longer than a certain amount of time (holidays), that was everytime- I had to take out fixtures and fittings insurance, even though I'd payed a £2000 held deposit....

I seriously think some landlords need to have a serious think before letting out 'Their' properties.....your making money, get over the control, that's what contracts are for...

Anyway, hope they were just being a bit cautious OP, maybe they were just having people stay and didnt want you thinking they were subletting....

So is 6 people in a 2 bed wrong then? I don't know if I am bothered really except they are noisy and wake us all up earlier than I would like. Can't be nice for them though and I think the landlord would be horrified.

MollysMummy Unfortunately some people have to live in overcrowded properties (bedroom tax anyone!???)...I know the council housing in my city okays that amount of people in a 2 bed- so why shouldn't private landlords....

Are people really oblivious to the current housing crisis? Or how soul destroying it is to pay thousands to live in a property you'll never own also making it impossible to save for your own....

Well done to the homeowners who have a house to spare to rent, but save a little compassion for those who might have never had a place to stay while saving for a home, instead of holding some sort of superiority complex-

Everything that’s wrong with British landlords is written, right here.
I cannot believe that people here think you can impose your will on tenants because you ‘own’ a property. Most of you landlords here will be on a mortgage that’s being paid by the tenant. It’s a business. Let go.
Not your home while they’re paying rent. Someone else’s.
I’ve rented and had people to stay. Thought nothing of it and neither did anyone else - certainly not the landlord.
Stop scaremongering about insurance being void if you have mates to stay. BS. Insurance allows for guests.
OP, you going to maintain the place proper or do the bare minimum over X years?
I moved into one overpriced property that hadn’t been cleaned. It didn’t look dirty when I viewed. The landlord did nothing. I had to pay for a deep oven clean, the works.
I’ve seen both sides. But sadly this thread makes me cringe!
I hope tougher sanctions are put on landlords. In my experience, most are absolutely ripping the piss. It would stop this attitude of divine right you seem to have here!!

Seconded Hotmess.....

Can it really be legal to tell someone that they aren't allowed to have guests in their own home?
I've rented lots of places and it never occurred to me that I should ask for permission to have people into my own home.