Is this my life for the next 12 years. Mother of daughters please help.

[AG29]

I have two DC. A bit age 8 who has autism and has just plodded along doing his own thing and is happy with that. He does have friends but never a best friend. He has never seemed to have a problem with any of the children.

Now, DD (4) started school in September and I have some concerns. I know kids will be kids and all that but at parents evening a while ago I was told DD is happy to play with most people but she does have one particular best friend. The mum of the best friend said that she was told that her daughter would only play with my DD at that point so we were told conflicting things. DD and this little girl became ‘best friends’ and had this cute little friendship, so I thought. I’ve encouraged DD to play with everyone as well as her best friend and include everyone.

I had a shitty time in school from a young age. I was always an outsider and I just want Dd to be happy and confident and play with anyone particularly those who need a friend.

Now they are only 4-5 so still very young. But DD came out in tears today as her ‘best friend’ and other friends had been leaving her out. Saying she cannot play with her. I know they are young. They could be best friends again tomorrow morning. But I noticed this at a party the other day. DD’s best friend and 2 other girls who are quite a bit older (DD is a summer birthday) leaving her out.

It’s absolutely fine for DD and the ‘best friend’ to play with others. I never wanted either of them not to be friends with others but this little girl seems to picking and dropping DD when she feels like it. I’m watching my daughter go from loving school and being so confident to not so much.

I’m probably thinking too much into this but like I said I had a shitty time in school and just want Dd to be happy with whoever she wants to play with.

It seems like her ‘best friend’ wants DD all to herself sometimes but often leaves DD out when she feels like it.

Is this worth mentioning to the teacher?

I just want Dd to have a better experience of school than I did.

This is all new to me. Is this just girls in general? Is this my life for the next 12 years?

Saltedcamel

Wise mumsnetters, without hijacking, can I ask how it affects you when other kids are 'mean' to your kids? When I hear about other kids saying or doing mean spirited things against my dc, I feel instant anger bubbling up and get quite annoyed about the 'mean kid'. I never show it of course. How do you keep your cool though their rollercoaster friendships?

I get the visceral thing when others are horrible to mine, even though they are now late teenagers/university. Much less so than I did when they were little, though, when I used to harbour murderous thoughts about any child who treated mine badly (secretly, obviously).

What kept me sane when they were little, and what stopped me becoming involved, was the knowledge that my DC are capable of being absolutely vile to one another - and, therefore, that they are more than capable of doing their fair share of being horrible to other children, too. Whatever their laments, my first question was always: and what did you do to them?

The answer was invariably "absolutely nothing, it was all X's fault", but I never believed it. If the assumption is that it's six of one and half a dozen of the other, it helps.

IME, only children are a PITA in this regard, as their mothers tend to believe that their DC can do no wrong (I know this is not true of all onlies, and I also know that some parents wouldn't believe it even if they had 85 children, but it is just my experience over many years).

I do think girls are worse than boys. One of mine went to an all-boys boarding school. He said the boys organise themselves into hierarchies very straightforwardly. Socially, there are chiefs (who would be Queen Bees if they were girls), and then there are the other hierarchies based on who's the best at sport, drama, music, Art, running - anything at all. Due respect is given to whoever's at the top of the heap.

They seem to accept the 'Chief' thing, whereas Queen Bee types are (IME) awful.

I don't think it's a girl thing, my ds made a best friend in yr1 then suddenly at the start of year 4 this friend decided he wasnt best friends anymore and actively encouraged others in the friendship group not to play with my ds. In short he was constantly ostracized and picked on. Took him a long time to get over and even now in yr5 hes still upset and is struggles with friendships

We're raising a generation who are incapable of resolving conflict because they're so used to someone intervening on their behalf

I completely disagree with this. There have always been issues like this in schools: children that like playing at manipulating their friends, children who are left out, children who are bullied. Some children are more resilient to it because they are naturally that by nature, others because their parents teach them the skills to deal with it. But there are many people who didn't have these advantages and suffer from lack of confidence many years later as a result. The difference is that it wasn't discussed so openly in the past.

OP I really recommend that you do activities outside to build your DD's confidence and to help her socialise with children outside school. Have skills and interests at an older age really pays off. Encourage her to tell you what's going on at school and how to manage friendships inside school - for example, by having a wider group of friends, by avoiding the Queen Bee types etc.

You cope with the 'mean' kids by realising that your own dcs are probably more than capable of being mean. Having rose tinted specs does them no favours

It's not a girls' issue. It happens with boys too.

I would speak to the school - not in a big complaining way, just in a casual is there anything you can tell DD to do that will help or anything the school can suggest? The DCs are still little and getting used to the dynamics. In our school if there was an issue like this, they'd have a TA lead some games in the playground to ensure everyone was involved.

Janderson 'Visceral' perfectly describes it .

I hate bullies and when I see bullying type of behaviour in kids, I can't help but judge them and their parents. I know that's probably not very nice either .

Definately worth chatting to teacher about, our daughter has always been flighty plays with any one and everyone, but i was worried that she didn't have anyone special, shes often the left out one, which normally she doesn't mind, but sometimes makes her sad.

But my point is, the reception and year 1 teacher both said they really discourage the 'best friend' thing, as soon as they see it they try and force a solution, putting them in different groups, encouraging them to include others because it leads to all the problems you mention and the distraught child who doesn't know what to do when best friend is off sick. A good teacher can be keeping an eye out for this stuff. Our school have done impromptu circle time activities when friendship stuff crops up, plus teachers being vigilant at playtime etc.

Think you should mention this to a teacher if it's really upsetting your daughter. It won't do any harm and may encourage the teacher to keep an eye on it and the teacher may partner your daughter with other children to foster other friendships. I would also encourage your daughter to make other friends, rather than go behind one particular person. She may find that by doing this, suddenly best friend wants to be her friend again. But more importantly she may find other people she likes and she's happy with.

Also think that boys prob have huge friendship issues as well. They may not be so open about communicating friendship issues to parents (probably because parents do not actively ask about friendships in the same way) but that's not good news to boys.

Oh lasts longer than 12 years, it goes on in sixth form too, if you’re lucky it filters out then but it can go on through uni too.

Oh god, don't tell the teacher.

Yes, for God's sake, don't tel the teacher your DD is unhappy at school and why. The teacher might want to do something to try to help her, heaven forbid!

I went through this at school and it ended up making me so miserable I withdrew from everyone. I was completely alone and rejected any attempts at friendship until I moved schools. It is a form of emotional abuse and it can fuck you up.

The teacher should split the kids up and make different partners, it's healthier all round. You could also try and involve your dd in after school activities with new dc's. Other friendships will make her less dependent on her bf.

Hi OP

I'm going through the same. The other girl does seem to be quite manipulative, choosing who her 'best friend' is that day and being mean to whoever isn't her friend, and worse, encouraging the others to be mean as well. I think its because she is quite shy and enjoys the power. Fortunately my daughter doesnt seem too bothered about it, just confused, but its heartbreaking when she is the days 'victim' and I ask why do you want to play with her when she treats you like that, and she says 'because I like her' and I think why!?

Not sure if this is the right approach but I always say 'do you think that was kind', 'would you do that to a friend' or 'well it's a good job you've got lots of other friends to play with isn't it / it's nice to have different friends' etc. I've been encouraging her to go to parties where we've actually rearranged some stuff at home so she could go and spend some time with other children. I try to encourage her to be friends with boys as well as girls and am taking her to a stereotypical 'boys' sport to mix with them a bit more. I'm not sure there is that much else you can do unless it is happening often and she is being excluded from a larger group by a few children as that is bullying and does need nipped in the bud if a few of them are following nasty girls lead

@imip. She has been assessed for autism due to her speech delay and her brother having asd but we have been told by numerous professional she does not have it but a general speech delay. But it does concern me that she could actually have asd and it may become more obvious. I believe I could be on the spectrum too. There is a genetic thing in my family!

It is a genetic thing I mean

Force may be too strong a word, but nip it in the bud, actively do something to distract from best friends and they were keen that all children build good relationships with everyone.

This happened to my daughter too, it was ok for her best friend to go and play with someone else, but if my daughter did it, she would sulk and make her feel bad. It does get better though. I would still speak to the teacher as they might have a friendship rule for the kids.

Yes this is going to be social dynamics for a while as they navigate the minefields of friendship and boundaries. You suffered it, I suffered it. The best we can do is give our daughters the tools so that they won't have to. So in our case we have been working on self confidence, assertiveness and communication for years with DDs as the best way that we can see to help these situations. We want her to be confident enough that if she is having a problem she can stand up for herself, understand and explain how she's feeling, look for help if she needs it and also empathise if she has hurt someone else's feelings. Its a long road, but DH and I brain stormed exactly what we wish we had known / been taught when we were little so as not to have had such a horrendous time with bullying throughout school and this was what we came up with. Hope it helps, PM me if you want to chat more about it x

This was my experience at school too. Three best friends and one girl would pick up and drop us other two when she felt like it. I can’t explain why we put up with it. Only primary though, as secondary got better and I made new friends.

Definitely enroll your DD in outside clubs. Making friends outside of school got me through the most difficult years.

My 4yo DD started school this year and already has had failings out and one girl saying she can't play with her and she's not friends with her. I am aware she gives as good as she gets so have encouraged her to ignore rude behaviour, speak up if she is not happy and play with other people. I've also reminded her of times she fallen out with people from nursery and then made up again.

Fortunately she likes to play with boys more which does reassure me she has a good variety of friends!

I remember the squabbles myself, pretty much all through school and for some people in adult life too.

In R and Y1 children are realising that other people have different minds to them. Many children especially girls play the same game every playtime and assume everyone else wants to play it too. Some children are trying to say they wold like to play something different, but the clumsy way it is expressed means that the other child hears, not I would like to try a new game, but I don't want to play with you. I'm not saying that there aren't deliberately mean things going on from time to time, but the vast majority of squabbles I sort out at this age boil down to the fact that one child can't yet appreciate that the other child would like to do something different to them.

IME, only children are a PITA in this regard, as their mothers tend to believe that their DC can do no wrong (I know this is not true of all onlies, and I also know that some parents wouldn't believe it even if they had 85 children, but it is just my experience over many years)

FFS. More bullshit about only children. I see you've put a disclaimer of "I know this is not true of all onlies blah blah shite".

Mine is 14 and came home on Saturday devastated because a friend had been horrible to her. I even debated having a chat with the other girl’s mum. The next day I went to collect DD from her sports club (after I had to practically force her to go in) and the two girls are sitting squashed in an armchair together laughing their heads off at husky videos. It’s the ebb and flow of relationships. I wouldn’t worry just yet.

Your DD does need a circle of friends though. Just the one special one, particularly at that age, can be suffocating unless they both want it, and the person she is best friends with now is very unlikely to be her best friend in a few years. Get your DD into as many clubs as you can. Mine did dance, brownies, gymnastics, swimming, judo...etc. over the years, and some of their best friendships come from there. It also gives them real confidence and self-efficacy so they’re better able to (generally) navigate the inevitable clashes.

Mine is 22 and unfortunately, I have to tell you, it gets worse as they get older. I also tried to have it sorted at school and with a couple of parents, and as an earlier poster says, you become ''that'' parent and nothing changes!

In the end, the best thing I think we did, was to encourage interests outside of school. It helped that none of her circle had the same interests/unable to attend so DD met new people and enjoy the interest without all the hassle and upset of being excluded.

The 'downside'' if that is the correct term to use, was the nastiness from one girl at school in the final years of schooling increased tenfold and we skipped the leavers' dinner as every girl except DD was invited for pre-dinner drinks at the parents home. When asked when an earlier issue occurred, they replied that our daughter had been invited and they didn't understand why she didn't turn up... you just cannot win by arguing back its ''their'' daughter causing all the grief...

Even I have had to block the young woman from viewing my social media comments on community pages.

In short, find hobbies/interests that do not involve anyone else from school. Call it a release valve if you like...

@AG29 that’s interesting. Are the professionals clinical psychologists that performed ADOS? I’d advise doing a bit of reading around girls and ASD as many professionals really don’t understand the difference in presentation. Her being ‘mothered’ could be another indicator. Once I finally has dd2 diagnosed, we realised about 50% of dh and my family has ASD, and it’s actually more prevalent in females than males.

Tell the teacher. Not in a complaining “What are you going to do?” way but “X is a bit unhappy because - could you keep an eye on it please?” I am a TA in primary and we definitely want to know. We don’t often interfere directly but we might, for example, watch what happens if we ask them to choose partners for something and either keep a closer eye on a pairing that has been raised as a concern, or encourage them to choose different partners. We might also pay attention to the dynamics in the playground and intervene a bit faster if there appears to be a problem, before anyone gets really upset.
The mantra of our Head is “If it matters to them (the children) it matters to us.” We’d much rather a parent said something than a child be worrying. Often we don’t do anything, because the kids resolve it themselves. But at least we know.

Call it shite all you like, Greencustard. It is just my observation after over 20 years of schools and children. Some parents of only children are saner than those of multiples. IME, though, that's not generally the case.