To think that my DC’s (7) IQ test results could be wrong?

[Poorboy136]

So my DD has struggled at school in most areas, apart from IT. Can’t stand reading, writing, maths and got 26/40 for the phonics screening test.

As soon as she started nursery the teacher suggested DD could have dyspraxia but she was only 3 years and 3 months at the time and I felt far too young to be labelled as such.

I did take her to the consultant community paediatrician and development nurse as the school had me so worried. They done a SOGS assessment and were like “She’s absolutely fine we have no concerns at all” I even joking said to the developmental nurse that ‘the way the school was going on, I was worried she had global developmental delay...’ She said ‘darling, She hasn’t got GDD she’s just a bit immature don’t worry...’

I felt so much better as the top people had seen him and I felt they had much more of an idea if she had anything wrong with her.

School didn’t really say much, although I got the impression they thought the consultant etc was wrong 🙄

Fast forward 2.5 years and she was getting on at school ok so I was told by the teachers. Then about 6 months ago they said that she’s petered off and not making much progress. Can they get the Educational Psychologist in to assess her? But that it could be a year before she sees DD as my DDs needs are mild compared to most others.

In the meantime I decided to get her assessed privately and pay for a Dyslexia. As her dad has severe dyslexia and there’s a large hereditary component. He also shows aspects of dyspraxia so I thought that might be what it is. The lady that done it is a teacher with extra qualifications in identifying Dyslexia in children.

Had her assessed and it came back she does have dyslexia. I felt so relieved that I had this diagnosis as it made sense. She said she’s a bright chatty girl.

Then...

The Ed Psyc from school assessed her last week and was given a copy of her dyslexia report but didn’t look at it. (Fair enough, I understand she has a job to do and doesn’t want to be influenced etc...)

Basically she said DD didn’t have dyslexia but does have a “Moderate Learning Difficultly” based on her IQ score of 65.

I was shocked and really not prepared for that news. I was crying as you can imagine. I felt very confused as why hadn’t the consultant picked it up? The developmental nurse etc? She met all her milestones, didn’t have issues with language etc... and I thought dyslexia (considering her dad has it) fitted the bill nicely.

Unorganised, forgets things easily, can’t stay focused for too long. (These are DD’s main issues)

I also have a private tutor for DD and have done since before summer. I told her yesterday and she said she doesn’t think that’s right. She said 85 yes but not 65. She said that she taught a child who had an IQ of 74 and he wasn’t as bright as my DD in her opinion.

She asked questions like “How does Santa get to all the houses though, how can he make presents for all the boys and girls in the world?” I think surely that’s pretty clever to question that!

I also spoke to another Ed Psych who does private assessments and she said that DDs still very young and the problem with doing them in such young children is they can’t always be reliable. She advised 8 would be a better age to do a full IQ test. My DD has just turned 7.

So I feel like with what was said by the other Ed Psyc about the reliability at that age...

What her tutor said about finding it hard to believe...

The consultant and developmental nurse being ‘wrong’

And the dyslexia report saying she’s a bright little girl etc...

I’m beginning to think that it could be wrong? Dd struggles to stay on task and keep focused and gives up on tasks very easily. So I think sitting for an hour and a half getting assessed, could she just have given up?!!!

BTW an IQ of below 70 is classed as an intellectual disability 😢

And by limited I mean that people often ask questions of an iq test that it can’t answer. If people understood them, they wouldn’t ask for them.

I would get her retested privately and make sure they do a full WISC-V battery. School psychologists will often cut corners by only doing partial testing. The materials to administer the test are quite expensive and it's a lengthy process. We went through this with DS and the testing he got from the school was rubbish compared with what the private psyhologist did.

Have you had any paperwork back from the assessment that explains what was said, what that means for your dd, & what they mean, Whether you get an assessment about your dc or you get a hospital diagnosis the thing they have in common is how they affect you - its difficult to take it all they say or to think of questions to ask or further explanations - what I can say as a mum of dc (now mature adult) with both dyspraxia & asd (with a few ects) is that what she was like at 6 & our worries about her future do not relate to the independent life she lives (with a bit of help & end of the phone/computer available)

@MissConductUS
Just a word of caution for the record. Just because a private psychologist includes lots of tests in their assessment fee doesn’t mean they are necessary.

More data can make you think you’re getting more bang for your buck. Psychology doesn’t really work like that though, and sometimes less is more.

TheYear, if a test has that amount of test-retest variation over a three week period, it is not a reliable test.

There's also the class differences (which again indicates it isn't measuring intelligence so much as test-taking skills), the issues with language barriers, literacy and educational level when testing adults, the issue with the whole concept of "IQ"...

My scores went from 122 to 141, so this is not sour grapes about having tested badly, if that's what you're trying to imply! There is a large body of research, which I have read, critiquing IQ tests. This isn't a minority view, there are real problems with them. I deal with older patients, so I administer a variety of cognitive tests (and run research studies using them). Obviously not IQ tests, as I don't think they are particularly helpful.

I wondered if bluerussian was referring to you confusing dd's sex in several posts.
I was assuming you may have changed it to obscure your identity.
However obviously some things are more common in boys vs girls

Obviously not IQ tests, as I don't think they are particularly helpful

Or more likely it's not part of your job and you're not qualified to administer them,

But keep going presenting yourself as an expert on line and advising this woman on her child.

@MissConductUS
I believe the child already had a WISC so it cannot he repeated within a specific time frame. More testing is the last thing this child needs anyway.

The cognitive testing results only provide a part of the puzzle at one point in time. These should be considered alongside developmental history, school based assessments, functional behaviour, language etc.

I wondered if bluerussian was referring to you confusing dd's sex in several posts

I suspect that and grammar, but I also assumed the op had changed the gender of her child and simply forgot as she was writing it in places, so reverted to the masculine.

Bluntness I'm not advising her on her child, or positioning myself as any kind of expert on dyslexia or developmental delays. Plenty of other people have told her that her child is or is not dyslexic, I've just said I'm not a fan of IQ tests, and that isn't a minority view.

Our dyslexia assessor told me that if there is a difference of more than 30 points in various sub-categories of the tests, they do not record an overall averaged score as it's meaningless. This is very common for dyslexics who can score 60 for phonological awareness and 115+ for other categories - the classic "spiky" profile. If the Ed Pysch did not follow that, your child's scores could end up very low overall.

There is something really off kilter here. One of the professionals has called this wrong and I wonder if the Ed Pysch is a dyslexia specialist or more of a generalist.

I would start by phoning the private assessor and explaining what happened. She may be prepared to phone the school ed psych or to rush the report writing. Either way you have a fight on your hands to ensure the school doesn't write off your daughter's capabilities.

But it didn’t have ‘that much test-retest variation’ @Sashkin, as has already been explained. The second score wasn’t actually a score because there was no standardised data available for people sitting the test a second time. So the second figure you got is actually meaningless. You can’t infer anything from it.

It’s quite concerning that you present yourself as someone who administers tests @Sashkin when clearly you don’t understand the science behind them.

This is why it’s frustrating to see so many armchair psychologists on this thread, who are talking nonsense as if it’s fact.

@FantasticMrMouse All qualified test users will look out for statitstically significant discrepancies between subtests and cluster scores, I highly doubt the EP has missed that. However I do think the OP should chase up the report and request a conversation to go through the full results on detail.

FantasticMrMouse

I know of no IQ test that includes a "phonological processing" subtest in the core scales that derive an IQ.

In any case the "spiky profile" is not a requirement for a British Psychological Society DECP approved method of identifying dyslexia (you do get spiky profiles, in most people actually. Bollocks all to do with dyslexia and certainly not diagnostic).

Funnily enough, the 3 year doctorate programme training educational psychologists does include some lessons on test score analysis and when it is and isn't safe to derive cluster or full scale scores.

After last week's ehcp thread that was full of sweeping assumptions and generalisations bout EP practice, it's getting a bit tiresome tbh.

It's a bit like suggesting that a geography teacher may not have heard of climate change....

i couldn't possibly hope to second guess an experienced tutor who knows your dd well, that's the advice i'd take most seriously in your shoes.

I think that it's helpful to know that children with learning difficulties/disabilities can also be very bright. DD1 is 14, has moderate learning difficulties/disability and has always gone to special school. She has a surprisingly large knowledge about space - names of each planet's moons, which planets are gas giants, which ones used to be gas giants but aren't now, etc. She is just starting to be able to read and her danger awareness is quite limited, but she's able to navigate her tablet well.

DD’s asking about infinity now, how much bigger it is than 100 years and what it means and what’s the ‘last number’... ever? 😂

Don’t know if this has relevance but the test the Ed Psych done lasted about 1 hour 40 mins absolutely maximum. So not sure if you can infer from that the likelyhood of it being a full blown test or part of one.

Very grateful for all the replies and I know that everyone’s trying to offer advice in a helpful manner. I will get in touch with the Ed Psyc once I have the report back and talk it through with her.

Her questions are great - extremely logical. Lower IQ people wouldn't have that level of curiosity, I don't think...

The advice about not second guessing is very sound. I don't think I'd be very good at following it in your situation, but it's the best approach.

And compiling a list of questions to ask the ed psych and school.

It's awful that they've left you with this uncertainty and anxiety, and I they really do need to secure a proper meeting with you before the Xmas break, having done that.

@MbwaKidogo
Is all that aimed at me? I have not represented myself as an expert nor claimed anything about the OP's child. My advice to her was to talk to the private assessor.
I am only a parent who has been through various similar situations. I have never claimed to be an expert or professional.
I'm dropping this thread because clearly only professionals can respond. Sorry I didn't get that memo.

OP - good luck in your situation. You DD sounds adorable with her questions.

@FantasticMrMouse
First paragraph aimed at you, yes.

Rest of ranty post more generally aimed at people implying repeatedly that this EP has no understanding of their role or dyslexia or IQ testing or confidently suggesting her opinion should be disregarded in favour of a tutor or dyslexia teacher or private EP, or suggesting that she will have skimped on the assessment, despite having only the barest of information about what has happened. I am sorry if it read that way and no, that wasn't all aimed only at you.

@poorboy

If the EP administered a WISC then there are certain core subtests that need to be administered to get a full scale IQ score, so it's likely that a 'full' cognitive assessment was completed if the EP was able to give this.