To think that my DC’s (7) IQ test results could be wrong?

[Poorboy136]

So my DD has struggled at school in most areas, apart from IT. Can’t stand reading, writing, maths and got 26/40 for the phonics screening test.

As soon as she started nursery the teacher suggested DD could have dyspraxia but she was only 3 years and 3 months at the time and I felt far too young to be labelled as such.

I did take her to the consultant community paediatrician and development nurse as the school had me so worried. They done a SOGS assessment and were like “She’s absolutely fine we have no concerns at all” I even joking said to the developmental nurse that ‘the way the school was going on, I was worried she had global developmental delay...’ She said ‘darling, She hasn’t got GDD she’s just a bit immature don’t worry...’

I felt so much better as the top people had seen him and I felt they had much more of an idea if she had anything wrong with her.

School didn’t really say much, although I got the impression they thought the consultant etc was wrong 🙄

Fast forward 2.5 years and she was getting on at school ok so I was told by the teachers. Then about 6 months ago they said that she’s petered off and not making much progress. Can they get the Educational Psychologist in to assess her? But that it could be a year before she sees DD as my DDs needs are mild compared to most others.

In the meantime I decided to get her assessed privately and pay for a Dyslexia. As her dad has severe dyslexia and there’s a large hereditary component. He also shows aspects of dyspraxia so I thought that might be what it is. The lady that done it is a teacher with extra qualifications in identifying Dyslexia in children.

Had her assessed and it came back she does have dyslexia. I felt so relieved that I had this diagnosis as it made sense. She said she’s a bright chatty girl.

Then...

The Ed Psyc from school assessed her last week and was given a copy of her dyslexia report but didn’t look at it. (Fair enough, I understand she has a job to do and doesn’t want to be influenced etc...)

Basically she said DD didn’t have dyslexia but does have a “Moderate Learning Difficultly” based on her IQ score of 65.

I was shocked and really not prepared for that news. I was crying as you can imagine. I felt very confused as why hadn’t the consultant picked it up? The developmental nurse etc? She met all her milestones, didn’t have issues with language etc... and I thought dyslexia (considering her dad has it) fitted the bill nicely.

Unorganised, forgets things easily, can’t stay focused for too long. (These are DD’s main issues)

I also have a private tutor for DD and have done since before summer. I told her yesterday and she said she doesn’t think that’s right. She said 85 yes but not 65. She said that she taught a child who had an IQ of 74 and he wasn’t as bright as my DD in her opinion.

She asked questions like “How does Santa get to all the houses though, how can he make presents for all the boys and girls in the world?” I think surely that’s pretty clever to question that!

I also spoke to another Ed Psych who does private assessments and she said that DDs still very young and the problem with doing them in such young children is they can’t always be reliable. She advised 8 would be a better age to do a full IQ test. My DD has just turned 7.

So I feel like with what was said by the other Ed Psyc about the reliability at that age...

What her tutor said about finding it hard to believe...

The consultant and developmental nurse being ‘wrong’

And the dyslexia report saying she’s a bright little girl etc...

I’m beginning to think that it could be wrong? Dd struggles to stay on task and keep focused and gives up on tasks very easily. So I think sitting for an hour and a half getting assessed, could she just have given up?!!!

BTW an IQ of below 70 is classed as an intellectual disability 😢

Please use this ‘gift’ that the EP has given you. With it you can get support, which is the most important thing.
100% !agree with this!

They are saying she has a global learning difficulty rather than a specific one because all her test scores are low.

Dyslexia is diagnosed when your ability todo some of the tests is completely out of step with your IQ.

The school is saying that she is performed on the test in line with what they perceive her IQ to be.

I’m surprised that this doesn’t get her any additional help.

If you can I would have a full Ed Pysc report done privately. Make sure that they give her breaks and she likes the person.

Today 12:51 Bluerussian

Reading your opening post I wondered if you had difficulties at school too.

Very sorry you've had this news about your daughter but IQ tests can be wrong, especially if the subject is dyslexic. Please do have her tested privately, then you will be in a position to decide on the correct type of education for her.

All the best.

Anyone else she’d a light as to why someone would assume I struggled at school from my OP? I’ve got enough things going on without caring what a stranger on the internet says but it’s probably going to bug me a bit by what was meant by that comment? Or why it was said? 😳

Forgot to say.

Whatever numbers the put on your daughter she is still the amazing child and they are only helpful to get her the helps she needs.

Good luck.

She does sound bright and certainly not in a very low IQ range (in as much as that means anything at all). And you mentioned she's good at IT. That, along with her chattiness and inquiring mind, suggests she lacks aptitude for certain things but doesn't lack intelligence.

7 is still young and it can be hard to clarify what's going on. Until about 7 school thought my DS was just generally slow and behind, apart from the TA who told me he was a "smart cookie". I knew he was, like your DD he asked all kinds of thoughtful questions and was good with computers - but struggled hugely with letters, reading, drawing, numbers etc, physically uncoordinated, distracted.

Eventually he was diagnosed with dyslexia and DCD (dyspraxia) and some ASD traits. I now have a teenager who is doing well in most subjects, reads full-length adult books and is amazing at computer science. But at 7 I didn't know if he was ever going to be able to read, cross a road, pass an exam etc.

Now I'm not saying it's all the same issues at all, but I do think things can change a lot once you get the appropriate support and the child catches up. At 7 my DS just wasn't ready for a lot of the things school expected him to do and the way they did them. He caught up later with the right support and understanding, and now he can choose the subjects he likes best, he's so much happier.

If you are having intelligent conversations with her then I would trust your instinct that it's not low IQ or a general delay. I wouldn't rush things to try to get to the bottom of it - just keep encouraging her and working with her, and things will become clearer.

It’s a while since I was a SENCo, but we would have expected a child with an IQ of the number you’ve been given, to need specialist provision and certainly considerable additional support in the form of an EHCP.

I know things are even more stretched financially in schools than they were a few years ago, but if no one is suggesting applying for an EHCP or specialist provision, then I don’t see how she can be as intellectually disabled as they are suggesting.

It’s possible to have dyslexia and be very able. It’s also possible to have it and be less able. Or even have it and be of average ability. It just seems as though this range of professionals have arrived at very different conclusions and left you completely confused. Unsurprising.

I think that, if you and the school can be mutually supportive in finding ways to support your DD and help her to make progress academically, a clearer picture might emerge. Providing that the strategies they are using are of benefit and they plan, do, review regularly. And that you do what you can to back up what works. If she doesn’t make progress after a few months, then you might think about going back to the paed.

I agree that a single number IQ result is a crude measure, without the sub tests revealing a profile of strengths and weaknesses.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with your OP, OP. You have a chatty, stream of consciousness sort of writing style which is fine. Don’t worry.

Your child does seem to change sex throughout your subsequent posts but I assume you are just trying to be discreet with your personal information.

Your child can’t be re-assessed right away, especially not with a WISC (the weschler scale). You could possibly request a retest with the British Ability Scales, a different test, but to be honest it would be more helpful to go through the subtest scores with the EP and talk about her performance on the day. Might there be a reason she underperformed?
Remember that it’s more than just a number. These tests also have confidence intervals, usually of 95%. Statistically, the assessment gets it wrong for 5% of pupils. Yours could be one of these.

Well I had problems at school and am particularly sensitive to some things, in my day there was less help available, consequently I'm always keen to know that children get the best on offer. School was a nightmare for me, nobody seemed to understand (or care). Some children have similar problems to their parents.

My son had some difficulties but he didn't care, he was clever and talented and made his own mind up about what he would do and he was right. I didn't have that confidence and it took me several years to carve out a niche though I got there in the end. I do get annoyed when children are unfairly labelled.

I hope all goes well for your daughter, she has you behind her all the way and that counts for a lot!

Just to say op, I have no experience of testing for any SEN however my MIL was told by my DH teachers that he was essentially thick, lazy and would never amount to anything...shock horror after her kicking up a right fuss and fighting every professional she could to get a disagnosis, he’s dyslexic.

He’s now a high level manager, went to uni and earns a very good wage living a normal life!

The IQ result doesn’t sound right to me and to be honest, I’d go with your gut. You know your child best!

OP, I've just read your post about the school's response.

They have assessed that your dd's IQ means that she won't do the SATS tests, but she also won't receive any extra help.

Absolutely unbelievable, not to mention unlawful.

The use to you, is that you will be able to approach the LA for a ECHP based on this report.

From what you've said, it does sound like they were quite happy for her to get a 'low score' for their own purposes ie to improve the KS1 SATS profile.

A score like that should be kicking into place all sorts of interventions and further assessments.

The Weischer IQ test is the one routinely used for children between 6 and 17 years. In your shoes, I would find a local recommendation for a private educational psychologist to administer the test in the correct conditions. Only parts of the tests are timed, the whole thing takes as long as it takes iykwim. It can be used to identify any learning strengths and needs - it's not designed to give a single IQ figure.

It's not cheap, around £600 in London area, I'm afraid.

Where are you based? I can recommend someone in London.

There is nothing wrong with your first post and I hope the person who suggested that it indicates that you would have struggled in school can explain themselves, otherwise they are just rude. Regarding the IQ test, I would not take it too seriously as an indicator of your DD's strenths and weaknesses. There are subsections to the test and, for example some people have very poor working memory which brings the overall score down but have good general understanding. Also at that age shyness, non cooperation, lack of specific knowledge, anxiety and many other factors can influence the test. I have seen adults whose self esteem has been affected by a poor IQ score given as a child. No-one should have given you a global figure without discussing with you your daughter's individual profile. The job of the school is to encourage her strengths as well as help her with strategies for the things she finds more difficult. Once you have the full results I would ask the school about a positive plan but get her reassessed in a years time. Watch her self esteem and let her know that everyone has things they find easy and things they need more help with. Let her know what you have found difficult and easier. I don't think this has been handled well.

With regard to Bluerussian's post, I suspect she was referring to a few incidents of poor grammar in your post - primarily the use of 'done'. i.e "The lady that done it" and somewhat naive reference to the "top people".

@thehorseandhisboy It’s not the school who have ‘given’ the IQ score though, it’s the EP who is independent from the school and bound by a strict code of ethics.
She can’t do the Wechsler again so soon, if she does the result will be invalid. And even of she takes another test in a year’s time amd the result is different, who’s to say which result is ‘correct’? What you going to do, keep testing her over and over?
This is the problem with IQ testing. In most cases it’s unhelpful and anxiety inducing.
Save your money OP.

This is so upsetting for you. I wasn’t diagnosed as dyslexic until I was. In my mid twenties at university as a mature student. All through primary and secondary school I was labelled a slow leaner not academic not to expect much from myself. You can get a second opinion get another report done.
Also those tests are very hard, it’s like being tested on all the things you find hard to do like le letter and number sequencing, constructing sentences out of random words.
Regardless of the outcome your daughter needs to have faith in herself and her abilities otherwise her confidence will be knocked and she will grow up believing she isn’t capable of anything..
i was always told I was bad a maths and yet here I am working in accounts.
I met the wife of a professor who worked in the vet school in Edinburgh. She told me about his dyslexia and how much she still helped him by proof reading his reports and presentations.

egontoste the WISC (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children) comprises multiple tests that assess various aspects of a child's cognitive functioning. Verbal, non-verbal, written, processing speed, reading, comprehension, working memory etc etc.

It very much can identify dyslexia or dyslexic traits as the child's scores on reading/reading pseudo words will be markedly different from their scores on eg verbal reasoning, working memory etc.

@thehotseandhisboy No the WISC does not identify dyslexia. Dyslexia has nothong to do with IQ (an outdated idea). There are many assessments in the Wechsler range, the WIATT for example is one for example that includes pseudo words etc, it is an achievement test though, not an IQ test. Please be careful not to spread misinformation.

@jgjgjgjgjg

Haha yes I see what you mean. I was just in a rush and used the easiest options. I did think that when I used ‘top people’, but I didn’t want to use the word professionals as that suggests they never never get it wrong.

I did go to Uni, although it was the biggest waste of money as I never did used it lol but I was average at school. Didn’t struggle but neither did I excel. 🙄 😂

You cant retest again within a year or so, well you can but you won't get accurate results. If your daughter has dyslexia or a specific learning difficulty (reading) she is very unlikely to need an EHCP, please ignore poster's that say that. EHCPs are for specialist placements. The school is legally obliged to provide the support your child needs regardless. If she's struggling with reading, spelling etc then focus on that. I'm a child psychologist and I do these tests all the time. My local authority don't 'diagnose' dyslexia anymore, most don't but it is recognised as a specific learning difficulty. A number from the EP report means nothing, it's just a number! And as you've said can be influenced by many things. At 7 years old, it is ridiculous to state that. Please don't have less high expectations for your daughter, she will thrive with the right support in whatever area she needs.

Peasplease21 just the fact that the ed psych gave the OP a 'score' without proper explanation and without a written report would make me question his/her ethics tbh.

Also, that s/he's happy to tell a parent that her child has an IQ of 65 though isn't significantly different to her peers (doesn't stand out in class)., and will under no circumstances qualify for additional support. No mention of a ECHP.

WTAF?

Also, that the ed psych hasn't as yet explained why it is that OP's dd doesn't have dyslexia (despite her father having it and it being previously diagnosed by a dyslexia specialist).

Fewer than 2% of the population have an IQ of

jgjgjgjgjg referring to the "top people does not indicate a learning difficulty, more a certain social attitude. Yes, OP wrote done instead of did, but I can't see how on earth it helps to pick at her grammar when she is clearly very worried about her daughter. How does it help? Is bluerussian* Michael Gove? Anyway I don't want to detract too far from her main question as the way this has been handled has the potential to negatively affect her daughter's self esteem and progress.

Such a low IQ score would give a diagnosis of Moderate Learning Diffculty in SEN terminology. In my LA, this would then move forward to an application for an EHCP as the school would need to do a great deal in addition to and different from the other children in the class to support the child. It is also classed as a learning disability and as such the learning disability team would offer support to both the school and within the home.
If the separate components of the assessment gave very different scores, the EP will not give an overall IQ but would refer to it as a spiked profile. That could be more indicative of an SPLD such as dyslexi, dependent on the areas that had the lowest score.
An IQ or dyslexia assessment in a 7 year old will involve very little reading or writing. The idea being, you're not limiting a child who can't read. A dyslexia assessment does not give an IQ score! It assesses working memory, writing speed, reading speed, phonological knowledge and vocabulary. As area of my job I screen children and from the results a risk quotient is made. Very rarely does a child score low enough in all areas to be at high risk of dyslexia. Generally, children tend to be absolutely average, or just below in a couple of areas. A child with such a low IQ will more than likely score low on a dyslexia assessment. True dyslexia does not discriminate between those with a high or low IQ, it can be found in all abilities. What is important is how you support the child. A dyslexic child with an average or above IQ will need a completely different approach than one with a low IQ.

OP, I would arrange another meeting with the EP who did the IQ assessment, along with the Senco, once the report is produced, and ask them to go through the scores very carefully to explain the findings. Also ask them what the implications of each individual assessment are in terms of support the school will provide. Take along the dyslexia report you had done privately too. This report more than likely won't come to school before Christmas, so I'd advise that until then, stop trying to second guess what might have happened, and try to put it to the back of your mind.

IQ tests and in particular the "overall" IQ number can be very blunt tools for learning disabled children who may have low scores in some parts of the test but much higher scores in other areas.

I've only skimmed the thread so I don't know if you have the detailed results for the individual items and the various scales, but from what you say about your DD it would not surprise me to learn that she has perfectly normal abilities in some areas.

Children with dyspraxia and /or dyslexia may score very poorly on things like working memory, processing speed and visual-spatial tests, even if their abstract reasoning and verbal skills are well within the normal range.

On the positive side, the test shows that your DD has a disability and it should hopefully enable you to get the support she needs x

Identify was the wrong word - I meant 'indicate'.

The point I was making is that ithe WISC identifies areas of strengths and weakness which can indicate avenues for further investigation.

I know that it's not a diagnostic tool.

*I fail to see how someone who is dyslexic can be accurately assessed by an arbitrary IQ test.

Oh ok, please tell us how you diagnose dyslexia then?*

Not with an IQ discrepancy measure. These are at least 15 years out of date as essentially they make it much easier for an able child to be "diagnosed" dyslexic as the lower your overall IQ measure the harder to get the required "discrepancy".

Dyslexia diagnosis best practice now involves providing high quality small group or individual teaching of reading and spelling and observing response to this teaching over time. It's a "process" of diagnosis not a one-off event.

I don't know what this EP has done or whether their assessment is accurate or not. However I am getting a bit pissed off by all these people coming on and saying "go private and get the assessment done again" as if that will buy you a different result. These same people who will swear blind that they never go to a private EP to get the result they "want".
OP, if you have questions or concerns about the assessment that has been undertaken with your daughter, then ask the EP. Take a list of concerns into the meeting.
My own son's cognitive assessment was severely affected by his social anxiety and when I questioned this, it was acknowledged that his written work and vocabulary made it clear that the assessment was not accurate. (Assessed with verbal IQ of 65. Non verbal assessment was at 99th percentile). It can and does happen. But speak to the professional involved, for goodness' sake.