To think that my DC’s (7) IQ test results could be wrong?

[Poorboy136]

So my DD has struggled at school in most areas, apart from IT. Can’t stand reading, writing, maths and got 26/40 for the phonics screening test.

As soon as she started nursery the teacher suggested DD could have dyspraxia but she was only 3 years and 3 months at the time and I felt far too young to be labelled as such.

I did take her to the consultant community paediatrician and development nurse as the school had me so worried. They done a SOGS assessment and were like “She’s absolutely fine we have no concerns at all” I even joking said to the developmental nurse that ‘the way the school was going on, I was worried she had global developmental delay...’ She said ‘darling, She hasn’t got GDD she’s just a bit immature don’t worry...’

I felt so much better as the top people had seen him and I felt they had much more of an idea if she had anything wrong with her.

School didn’t really say much, although I got the impression they thought the consultant etc was wrong 🙄

Fast forward 2.5 years and she was getting on at school ok so I was told by the teachers. Then about 6 months ago they said that she’s petered off and not making much progress. Can they get the Educational Psychologist in to assess her? But that it could be a year before she sees DD as my DDs needs are mild compared to most others.

In the meantime I decided to get her assessed privately and pay for a Dyslexia. As her dad has severe dyslexia and there’s a large hereditary component. He also shows aspects of dyspraxia so I thought that might be what it is. The lady that done it is a teacher with extra qualifications in identifying Dyslexia in children.

Had her assessed and it came back she does have dyslexia. I felt so relieved that I had this diagnosis as it made sense. She said she’s a bright chatty girl.

Then...

The Ed Psyc from school assessed her last week and was given a copy of her dyslexia report but didn’t look at it. (Fair enough, I understand she has a job to do and doesn’t want to be influenced etc...)

Basically she said DD didn’t have dyslexia but does have a “Moderate Learning Difficultly” based on her IQ score of 65.

I was shocked and really not prepared for that news. I was crying as you can imagine. I felt very confused as why hadn’t the consultant picked it up? The developmental nurse etc? She met all her milestones, didn’t have issues with language etc... and I thought dyslexia (considering her dad has it) fitted the bill nicely.

Unorganised, forgets things easily, can’t stay focused for too long. (These are DD’s main issues)

I also have a private tutor for DD and have done since before summer. I told her yesterday and she said she doesn’t think that’s right. She said 85 yes but not 65. She said that she taught a child who had an IQ of 74 and he wasn’t as bright as my DD in her opinion.

She asked questions like “How does Santa get to all the houses though, how can he make presents for all the boys and girls in the world?” I think surely that’s pretty clever to question that!

I also spoke to another Ed Psych who does private assessments and she said that DDs still very young and the problem with doing them in such young children is they can’t always be reliable. She advised 8 would be a better age to do a full IQ test. My DD has just turned 7.

So I feel like with what was said by the other Ed Psyc about the reliability at that age...

What her tutor said about finding it hard to believe...

The consultant and developmental nurse being ‘wrong’

And the dyslexia report saying she’s a bright little girl etc...

I’m beginning to think that it could be wrong? Dd struggles to stay on task and keep focused and gives up on tasks very easily. So I think sitting for an hour and a half getting assessed, could she just have given up?!!!

BTW an IQ of below 70 is classed as an intellectual disability 😢

@RoseDog

She doesn’t stop talking 🤣 questions everything about why, how, what etc....

I’m not sure if it was written or not to be honest. I was just in the room when they were telling me and I was utterly shocked.

She sounds very bright to me! When I spoke to the school about my son, who was dyslexic, but hadn't yet been diagnosed, the head teacher said "Sometimes, Mrs 81, we have to just accept that our children are not very bright". I asked for the Educational Psychologist to assess him, and he turned out to have a very high IQ. These people do get things wrong. If you want to do something that will really help your daughter, I'd suggest swimming. The psychologist told me that physical activity such as gymnastics, or dance helps to develop a part of the brain which deals with dyslexia and dyspraxia, but that often these children find it impossible to coordinate well enough. He said learning different swimming strokes seems to be easier. My son couldn't swim at the time, but I sent him for lessons. His teacher said it took him ages to learn back stroke, because he would move one arm backwards and the other forwards, and go in circles. Once he got it though, it did seem to help him generally in other parts of his life.
I know it's very difficult just now, because you've had a shock, but remember she is still the same bright little girl you've always had. Her enquiring mind (Santa question) is still the same. If you hadn't been told this, you would have just assumed that she would grow up, get a job, get married, have children. She might very well not have done any of those things, but you'd have dealt with whatever situation she found herself in when it happened. Your situation now is no different. Her father is dyslexic, it doesn't seem that it has affected him in these areas.

I would not give it credence in those circumstances. Especially given the concentration issue. Focus on attaining and solidifying skills. Maybe seek a CAMHS referral for a more rounded assessment. You don't need to be confrontational with the school, you can just say that you would value input of CAMHS as to best support strategies and next steps.

I would go private and get a full battery of tests done for a second opinion.

OP would need to wait one year before another cognitive test can be administered, due to practice effects.

I think the Ed Psych was prejudiced from a bad in test.

This is an utterly ridiculous thing to suggest. Have you ever administered a psychometric cognitive assessment?

OP - it’s very wrong that you have been given this “number” with no explanation. Outrageous actually!

An Ed Psych assessment takes scores in four main areas (as I remember). These are - verbal reasoning, non-verbal reasoning, speed processing and working memory.

For a bright, dyslexic or dyspraxia child, they may score very highly in the VR and NVR sections, but much lower for speed processing and / or working memory. Speed processing in particular, tests the ability for a child to carry out actions eg. put ideas into paper - so a dyspraxic child will score very low in this area. It’s something called “proprioceptic feedback” that is delayed - ie the brain sending messages via the nervous system to the relevant part of the body to carry out the action and then the brain receiving a message back that the action has been carried out. It’s nothing to do with intelligence.

For instance, when my DS was 7, he had an Ed Psych Assessment. For VR and NVR, he was on the 99th centile.However for speed processing he was on the 18th centile and I think his working memory was on something like the 35th. So his average IQ would have been low, even though intellectually he was very able (in the top 1%). They said he had “dyspraxic tendencies.” The Ed Psych refused to give an average as she said this was irrelevant.

Also, it’s important to understand that development is fluid and these scores change. DS was just tested again before his GCSEs and his speed processing had risen to 83 (the standardised average being 100). He qualified for extra time by, I think 2 points (anything below 85 qualifies for extra time in exams). He achieved 10 Grade 9s at GCSE. This is a child that the Year 1 teacher once described as someone who will “struggle every day of his life in relation to his peers and become increasingly frustrated that he will never reach his potential.”

I hope this helps you. It’s a common scenario. Children with dyslexia, dyspraxia or other SPLDs will have “spiky” EP profiles. This is how issues are diagnosed so that targeted support can be given. Averages are pointless in such circumstances.

I fail to see how someone who is dyslexic can be accurately assessed by an arbitrary IQ test.

Oh ok, please tell us how you diagnose dyslexia then?

Who did which test? (This is important to know). What methods did the dyselxia teacher/specialist use to assess and what methods tests did the edpsych use? Usually an ed psych will do a wechsler (WISC) "intelligence" and some other tests. The WISC would give an overall "IQ" but with dyslexia you wouldn't report it because the whole point is that the specific difficulty skews the number. So a kid could be in the normal or high range for general ability, bit in the low range for working memory/processing speed. The low scores on that component would drag the overall score down... But it would also indicate a specific LD. If all scores are low thennit would suggest something more global/general. AND the whole thing needs to be seen contextually....

And yes, I agree with a PP swimming is brilliant for dyspraxic children. In DS’ case it was karate. He used to be all over the place and could not follow the sequences. He recently got his black belt after 9 years!

From what you've said she doesn't like she has a low IQ, although I'm no expert, but if she answered the IQ on paper and she is dyslexic it would come back with a low score.

Dyslexia can really affect their behaviour in the classroom as they distract themselves from "normal" learning as they know they will struggle.

Have you/anyone tried coloured overlays to try and help her read? They really help my dd, although they only solve the letters/words moving about, dyslexia goes much deeper with processing information and spelling, my dd still spells her own name wrong if she's not concentrating!

Another thing try the Nessy app on a tablet/phone.

Forgetting the specifics for a moment, the school were concerned enough about her progress to call in the ed psych who has given them a reason to provide (and fund her) with extra support to help improve her progress - have the school told you yet what they are going to do?

Have you thought about requesting an ECHP assessment? (you can do yourself if the school won't) if granted (probably on appeal) then it will ensure legally that your daughter gets the right support in school, and if it turns out due to dyslexia/MLD that there is a more suitable senior school you probably stand a much better chance of getting a place.

I would probably also be going back to the paed.

Sorry cross posted with @cosima1

In Wales the education authorities are loathe to accept dyslexia even if you have paid a lot of money to have them tested privately. Why? Because it will cost them money. You have a fight on your hands perhaps. My friend fought for three years with education after paying for an assessment, she finally won when he was 11. He now has extra help and is doing so well at 14 he is a confident boy who has come on in leaps and bounds.

You need the report. The working memory and processing speed can being down the fsiq quite a bit. Look at the other two categories.

@Poorboy136 ds has autism and moderate learning difficulties. He's 6. He has to have full time 1-1 etc, only just surviving mainstream school with heaps of support and still only by the skin of his teeth. he is on his own planet a lot of the time and those diagnoses fit him to a T.

He is overall about 2/3 years delayed but he does do things that are advanced for his age. He's very cognitively spiky!

I don't think these tests are accurate, we've had professionals working with us for years and they all have a different take. we've had Ed phyc into school last year in reception (ds has an ehcp) and she said he was more like a 16 month old child when he was almost 5.

I did not agree at all with that. and that's from me, the one who is more likely to lay it on thick in the hope he gets every bit of support he needs and the one who spends every waking second with him barring from when he's at school.

Don't take what she said as given, just accept she needs some support, take whatever you can and try not to worry too much about the future, she's way to young to worry about that. X

Did the EP call it a moderate learning difficulty?? Because an IQ of >70 is a learning disability. A learning difficulty is things likes dyslexia / dyspraxia...you would be pretty low functioning in society with that score. Needing a lot of support with activities of daily living etc. Is this the case in everyday life and school?

I would expect the IQ test results are skewed because of dyslexia? But not sure why she wouldn't just say that though. I also agree that IQ testing is ridiculous at this age. They need to look at skills and functioning within education.

Also agree everything needs to go back to paediatrician. They need to be in control of your dds care, not the school.

justasking111 I threw a tantrum to get my dd some help, not my finest moment but I'd listened to "we don't like to label children" once to often, when you have a bright child who is distressed and struggling and bright they need that label, they need to know this is what is wrong and what can be done about it!

I would have thought an IQ test was quite difficult for someone with dyslexia, because if the dyslexia, rather than the IQ.

But I have zero experience in this.

I’m not sure if it was written or not to be honest. I was just in the room when they were telling me and I was utterly shocked.

Was the Ed Psych at that meeting? Or was it "just" SENCO/classteacher etc summarising the findings verbally?

I wonder if there is any possibility at all thatsomeone other than the Ed Psych has inappropriately averaged the sub-test scores?

@Mummy0ftwo12

The ironic thing is, they said she would absolutely not get a ECHP at all. They said she would get no extra support other than what she already gets, small group work. That no extra funding would be available to the school etc.

Basically all that will happen is she won’t need to do SATS and they now won’t expect her to do as well as her peers as with the IQ of 65 she has limited potential.

I should add, I am talking about autism and those tests not being accurate for Asd children, that's all I have experience with.

I don't know anything about dyslexia.

But I will stand by what I said about your dd being too young to worry about her future. Of course it's natural too! But you don't know what the future holds. Kids surprise us every day. My son does for sure! X

@rainywinterday my ds does have an iq below 70, but on paperwork from his consultant, it's learning difficulties. They don't write disabilities.

I think everyone calls it what they like, gets v confusing when each report I have words it differently.

The ironic thing is, they said she would absolutely not get a ECHP at all. They said she would get no extra support other than what she already gets, small group work. That no extra funding would be available to the school etc

Ironic is not the correct word for this. I have several different words. What they are saying is very surprising.

Do not listen to non-specialists on this matter. Teachers in mainstream are not SN specialists at all. They are professional teachers, not paediatricians, psychologists or lawyers. SENCO is an administrative responsibility for an ordinary teacher

Go and get specialist input.

@rainywinterday

She said she doesn’t have dyslexia but she does have a ‘General Learning Difficultly’ to a moderate degree. I know dyslexia is a specific learning difficulty so I assume he didn’t do will on the verbal/non verbal reasoning either.

That’s my worry that as you say, a score of 65 is considered an intellectual disability and as you say they would struggle day to day in general across the board in every aspect of life. As an adult they would need support. That’s the bit that breaks my heart.

Had he got 78 I could think well it’s just about average so I wouldn’t be as concerned.

I’d agree that just giving an overall IQ score is inappropriate. You should be seeing exactly how that score has been reached. A spiky score with strengths and weaknesses could point to a specific learning difficulty, a flatter score with most areas with a similar score would be more concerning but with correct interventions your DD will make progress.

To be honest, I’m sure this has come as a shock and is upsetting but this EP may have done your DD a favour. With the EP’s report it should be possible to get your DD an EHCP which specifies legally enforceable support that must be provided to your DD. If it’s unduly pessimistic that is upsetting but actually makes easier to get the support your DD might need. Instead of spending time getting private reports which LAs often won’t take into account, I’d be pushing now for an EHCP with using the EP’s report as evidence.

@ChristaMSieland

It was the Ed Psych the senco and teacher all there. It was the Ed psych that gave me the score and I imagine she would have scored it.