To think that my DC’s (7) IQ test results could be wrong?

[Poorboy136]

So my DD has struggled at school in most areas, apart from IT. Can’t stand reading, writing, maths and got 26/40 for the phonics screening test.

As soon as she started nursery the teacher suggested DD could have dyspraxia but she was only 3 years and 3 months at the time and I felt far too young to be labelled as such.

I did take her to the consultant community paediatrician and development nurse as the school had me so worried. They done a SOGS assessment and were like “She’s absolutely fine we have no concerns at all” I even joking said to the developmental nurse that ‘the way the school was going on, I was worried she had global developmental delay...’ She said ‘darling, She hasn’t got GDD she’s just a bit immature don’t worry...’

I felt so much better as the top people had seen him and I felt they had much more of an idea if she had anything wrong with her.

School didn’t really say much, although I got the impression they thought the consultant etc was wrong 🙄

Fast forward 2.5 years and she was getting on at school ok so I was told by the teachers. Then about 6 months ago they said that she’s petered off and not making much progress. Can they get the Educational Psychologist in to assess her? But that it could be a year before she sees DD as my DDs needs are mild compared to most others.

In the meantime I decided to get her assessed privately and pay for a Dyslexia. As her dad has severe dyslexia and there’s a large hereditary component. He also shows aspects of dyspraxia so I thought that might be what it is. The lady that done it is a teacher with extra qualifications in identifying Dyslexia in children.

Had her assessed and it came back she does have dyslexia. I felt so relieved that I had this diagnosis as it made sense. She said she’s a bright chatty girl.

Then...

The Ed Psyc from school assessed her last week and was given a copy of her dyslexia report but didn’t look at it. (Fair enough, I understand she has a job to do and doesn’t want to be influenced etc...)

Basically she said DD didn’t have dyslexia but does have a “Moderate Learning Difficultly” based on her IQ score of 65.

I was shocked and really not prepared for that news. I was crying as you can imagine. I felt very confused as why hadn’t the consultant picked it up? The developmental nurse etc? She met all her milestones, didn’t have issues with language etc... and I thought dyslexia (considering her dad has it) fitted the bill nicely.

Unorganised, forgets things easily, can’t stay focused for too long. (These are DD’s main issues)

I also have a private tutor for DD and have done since before summer. I told her yesterday and she said she doesn’t think that’s right. She said 85 yes but not 65. She said that she taught a child who had an IQ of 74 and he wasn’t as bright as my DD in her opinion.

She asked questions like “How does Santa get to all the houses though, how can he make presents for all the boys and girls in the world?” I think surely that’s pretty clever to question that!

I also spoke to another Ed Psych who does private assessments and she said that DDs still very young and the problem with doing them in such young children is they can’t always be reliable. She advised 8 would be a better age to do a full IQ test. My DD has just turned 7.

So I feel like with what was said by the other Ed Psyc about the reliability at that age...

What her tutor said about finding it hard to believe...

The consultant and developmental nurse being ‘wrong’

And the dyslexia report saying she’s a bright little girl etc...

I’m beginning to think that it could be wrong? Dd struggles to stay on task and keep focused and gives up on tasks very easily. So I think sitting for an hour and a half getting assessed, could she just have given up?!!!

BTW an IQ of below 70 is classed as an intellectual disability 😢

In this case, the professionals involved have created much anxiety in OP. I'd be worried sick in her situation.

It's outrageous to tell a parent that their child has an extremely low IQ, won't be enrolled for the SATS because of it, that they won't expect much from her although she won't be given additional support.

Excellent post from soontobe. Quite shocked at people, especially with no qualifications not just trying to diagnose this child on an Internet forum, but making definitive statements.

@thehorseandhisboy Oh I’m not condoning the way this assessment has been dealt with, as an EP myself it doesn’t sound like good practice at all. I was just trying to counter any suggestion that the school had ‘massaged’ the results to favour their SATs data. They would not be able to do that.

I also wanted to discourage the OP from seeking further IQ assessments in the hope of gaining further clarity re. dyslexia.

Based on everything you've said, I would be giving a lot more weight to the dyslexia diagnosis at this age and stage and tell the school you expect them to honuor the professional's diagnosis.

With some targeted support for her dyslexia, her IQ 'score' will likely become a heck of a lot more accurate than a test given to what is likely a dyslexic child at too young an age.

Oh, and I say that as a parent of a child with quite severe dyslexia. He's quite bright ... but also quite dyslexic ... but the support has been a game changer for the better.

Mbwa I have quite a lot of sympathy with parents who decide to seek a second opinion when the outcome of one assessment doesn't fit with their knowledge about their child.

This happened very recently to a friend of mine who was sure that her 7 year old was dyslexic, given the things that he was finding difficult and it being in both sides of the family.

School assessed and said he wasn't. She went to a dyslexia specialist and indeed he is. The school have now got very on board and have been supportive, but it was only because of her extensive family experience about dyslexia that she knew that their assessment was very likely wrong.

It's fair enough to seek a second opinion, I think, in any diagnostic circumstance if it doesn't fit with your own observations.

The specialist dyslexia teacher said she had dyslexia but sadly the Ed Psych that seen my DD said she didn’t have dyslexia, but that she had a ‘Moderate General Learning Difficultly’.

I've always felt that specialist dyslexia teachers, especially if you're paying privately, will inevitably find dyslexia, it's in their interest. People I know are always more willing to believe the diagnosis of the paid person than anyone else.

It's outrageous to tell a parent that their child has an extremely low IQ, won't be enrolled for the SATS because of it, that they won't expect much from her although she won't be given additional support.

Yes of course it is. Which is why she needs to speak to THESE people and learn more about what they have done and what they propose to do next.

OP it might be a good idea to get your local sendiass or IAS team to come to a meeting to support you.

The tutor has flagged that they also feel the child is not an academically able child by saying "85, yes, but not 65". An IQ of 85 is 12th percentile and would be finding some aspects of academic school life difficult. That also doesn't correspond well with this score of 110 from the dyslexia person, as this is a high average score.
OP I am not at all surprised that you are bewildered as there are multiple mixed messages here. Ask for a meeting to discuss with as many of these people as possible, this side of Christmas.

Peasplease21 unfortunately, I do know of a family where the school was very determined to have him removed from the KS2 SATS.

They kicked up a stink, and various supportive measures were put into place and he sat them.

The school didn't 'massage' the results per se - they just used them to justify the course of action they wanted, rather than think about how this information could help them support this child.

OP has already had a dyslexia assessment done, albeit on a very young child, but it's not clear why the school don't seem to have taken any notice of this.

Incidentally I don't agree at all that IQ tests at 7 are Inaccurate because the child is too young. At 2.5 - 3, sure, as you are at the base level of the test. 7 is fine.
I have many issues with IQ tests - thinking that 7 is too young to test is not one of them.

I'm amazed that ed psych's can diagnose MLD on their own, when my son had his autism assessment, 3 Paed's were involved, one specialist SALT, two specialist nursery nurses plus his nursery keyworker and their senco were invited to participate.

mummy
It's usually a case of confirming learning difficulties not "diagnosing". This would be based on observation, information from school and parents, looking in school books etc, as well as cognitive assessment to clarify learning profile. It should not be an IQ test as a stand alone. It should always be triangulated.

tilly about 10% of children have some sort of dyslexic profile.

The vast majority of children don't get assessed because there's no need.

So I would imagine that quite a high % of children who are assessed for it actually do have it.

@thehorseandhisboy the WISC (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children) comprises multiple tests that assess various aspects of a child's cognitive functioning. It very much can identify dyslexia or dyslexic traits.

Dear God! No, it “very much” can NOT do this!

Can the qualified BPS Test Users please stand up?!

There’s so much misinformation and frankly, utter bollocks, on this thread. @MbwaKidogo and@Peasplease21 know what they’re talking about. Listen to their voices of reason.

It’s outrageous that these “professionals” have simply informed OP that her DD has an IQ of 65 - just like that - with no explanation or programme of support. What is she supposed to think?

They could have at least waited until the full report was ready and then gone through the findings properly.

If the DD has previously scored 110 for VR, it’s not likely that she suddenly scored 65 is it?

I’m no expert, but the 65 is surely bound to be an average of four or five sub-groups.

I would be livid OP because they are not acting professionally at all, from what you’ve said.

Derailing slightly, but i'm.amazed at how quickly the school got an EP in. In my school I havevto fight tooth and nail and present an enormous amountbof information suggesting need before they will do that. In these days of cuts, the budget just is not there unless there is already a lot of evidence - and a EP report is necessary for an EHCP.

I'd go back to the school personally. No school does that unless they have concerns and evidence - ask to speak to the senco and class teachers for the last few years. It is different in private schools though, EP are used quite differently.

I've already said that I used the wrong word - I meant indicate.

She sounds very similar to my son. He was very behind in all areas although school said he was just a summer born and would catch up. As we have a family history of dyslexia I had him privately tested at 6 but school wouldn't acknowledge or accept the diagnosis as it wasn't carried out by an educational psychologist. He slipped further and further behind until he was finally seen by the school Ed psych who was running behind so didn't do a full assessment and then left! Secondary school were supportive although he didn't have a diagnosis of anything but he still really struggled academically. He was tested aged 15 and found to have an average IQ but ridiculously slow processing skills (like zero slow!). It wasn't until college that I was finally told he was extremely dyslexic! It annoys me so much as he didn't get the correct support early on. He's 18 now and still at college and is doing better. His biggest issues are with anxiety and self -esteem. Request a meeting with the school Head and SENCO, don't give up or be fobbed off and keep fighting! (If you think your daughter is bright then she is, I knew my son didn't have a low IQ as like your daughter his reasoning was excellent and he seemed bright to talk to).

Guys.
No one should be diagnosing dyslexia on the basis of a wisc score. These tests DO NOT show dyslexia.

No one should be suggesting that a child has general learning difficulties on the basis of a Wisc score alone, in a child where other evidence says that they have good reasoning skills.

No one should be going around saying you can't do an IQ test on a 7 year old.

OP, you have a very confusing set of contradictory results here and it is no wonder you don't know what to believe. You need to speak to the people involved and better still, have them speak to each other.

None of us here can tell you which of the assessments is accurate, if any. Ignore anyone saying "the dyslexia result is correct and the EP is wrong". They can't know that.

Speak to the people involved.

Primary teacher here, would not recommend EP assessment for dyslexia until 2nd half of Y3, depending on when pupil is born. My DD was assessed by an EP for dyslexia / dyscslculia at this age, after growing concerns about her learning since Y1, which her school managed beautifully without necessary trying to label it. I didn't go for dyslexia teacher assessment or similar as wanted the benefits of an official EP diagnosis (reader + extra time for SATs, tech support etc) should DD turn out to be dyslexic. The best part of the diagnosis though, has been DD understanding that her brain just processes things differently and that she's not 'stupid', which is how she had begun to feel.
Best of luck with supporting your DD on her journey, OP.

It’s outrageous that these “professionals” have simply informed OP that her DD has an IQ of 65 - just like that - with no explanation or programme of support

This is not what the op said. In fact other than to say she was crying she has given no information in her op about the meeting , just some minor drip feeds in the thread. The op is focused heavily on other elements the op feels the iq test was wrong.

People absolutely should not be saying of the test is wrong she's definitely dyslexic. Unless you have all the information the schools have, inc the lack of progress reports, test results etc. And are qualified to interpret them it's appalling to be telling this woman her child's diagnosis like you're more qualified and knowledgeable on her case.

No one here is.

I second everything @MbwaKidogo has said.

IQ tests are not really very reliable - I took two when I was 11, three weeks apart (in school, not for fun), and my scores were 20 points better in the second test (it was a different test, but we'd practised technique in class).

20 points is a massive amount to gain in three weeks, and clearly didn't represent an actual change in intelligence, just a change in preparedness. I've never paid any attention to IQs since then, they are about as scientifically rigorous as Myer's Brigg personality tests.

What are your qualifications in administering IQ tests, @Sashkin, seeing as you are so well informed about their scientific rigour?

@Sashkin All an IQ test does is compare how well you perform to how well others like you performed in the standardisation sample. The score for your first try was compared to how well others did on their first try. There is no stardard data to compare against for second tries. It’s why the the results from repeated sittings close together are invalid.
The tests themselves do what they are supposed to, the problem is that many people don’t understand what they do or don’t show. You are right that they are of extremely limited use though.