to think that the NHS is really quite shit and that not everyone who works in it is an underpaid hero?

[Adenosine]

There is a strange British preoccupation with the NHS which I think prevents honest public dialogue about its many shortcomings. At the time it was set up it was innovative, but now there are many other universal healthcare systems most of which are better than the NHS and many of which cost less money.

It's ranked low globally and really quite shit yet few people dare criticise or. AIBU to think that we really need to be far more critical?

The NHS does need fixing; but IMO it worked better in the old days when the wards were managed by a competent ward sister.
It went noticeably downhill when ward managers were introduced, all they did was add layers of bureaucracy.
The NHS is hampered by its absolutely awful IT system, and by the bizarre culture of bullying you see in some departments.

I work for the NHS and while I appreciate people being aware how hard I work (when they are aware of what I do not just because I work for the NHS) and I do feel I should earn more I do not think NHS staff should be put on a pedestal. Too many manage to work their way up when they are incompetent and we have our share of lazy workers/unnecessary jobs created/staff you wonder why they have chosen to work with vulnerable people etc

The NHS has to change I wish a politician was brave enough to put this forward we don’t have to have an American system we have a different attitude to health/social care here we can look to other countries in Europe but I would mean we pay more (or those that can afford to)

The Hospitals I have worked in and have had relatives in here in UK have been dirty, run down and inefficient compared to the many I worked in abroad. I think it's easy to think you have the best when you haven't experienced another system. And vice versa for those who have experienced a worse one. I guess!

The French system is outstanding, have used it a number of times. One very obvious difference is that in the UK, GPs end up being gatekeepers, only undertaking investigations and referring on if absolutely essential, soil due to funding. In France, there's no 'see how you are in a couple of weeks', it's straight to blood tests, scans etc. As a result, the time from visiting the GP to diagnosis and treatment is much quicker. The other very simple thing they do is use the phone rather than send letters. So referrals and appointments are made by phone, there's no waiting for an appointment which isn't convenient anyway to arrive in the post.

Agree with any other poster telling you to fuck off, OP.

You are being both a goady - and pointless - fucker.

Any criticism of the NHS is ‘goadiness’ wtf?

Take a look at Germany or Australia, fantastic systems!!

Falling ill will cost you in both countries ie neither are free at the point of use!

We do demand that a system be better for us but what about we’ll be better for ourselves. We can’t adopt any lifestyle we want without further strain on the system.

You are absolutely right OP but you will get slammed on here because the NHS is a sacred cow. We are fed all this bollox about it being the best in the world etc and how we have to be vigilant against "Health Tourists" but IME the reverse is true. Every European person I know (lots because I live in London) at the first sign of problems goes home for treatment because the heath service is better. I'm not just talking about major economies like France and Germany but all of the Eastern European countries as well. Patient outcomes are better in many poorer countries.

All the consultants I know are conservative voters because they understand the funding problem. They have attended courses explaining why the NHS is completely unsustainable in it's current form. We have a high proportion of old people who will live very long lives and the young would have to pay a ridiculous proportion of their income to support the NHS and it just isn't feasible.

Instead of bleating that we don't want an American system as if that was the only alternative we should be looking at countries with better systems like France and Germany and copying theirs. Instead nobody dares mention change to the masses because we've been brainwashed.

@randomchatter that;s not true, public Hospital care is free in Australia

the choice is NHS changes or it stays as it is maybe with a bit more money but the cracks become deeper

Seems some are so tied to this belief that there isn’t a better system/the only other way is the US healthcare system they are unable to have a conversation about improving healthcare in this country

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed Agree totally. Also, an element of "it's free so we should be grateful for what we get".

@newuseroftheweek that’s an interesting post. I have a friend whose husband has a long term degenerative illness. They have moved back from Australia to the UK as they couldn’t afford medical care in Aus.

The other thing to remember is the deficit in social care funding which is huge. Not having enough social care funding has a massive knock on effect on the NHS.
The number of hospital beds has decreased by 70,000 since 2000, and has halved in 30 years. It follows a similar pattern to hospital beds in the rest of Europe. Some of the reasons are people are not staying in hospital for some treatments, most chemotherapy or radiotherapy is done as a day patient, improvements in surgical techniques mean people can go home earlier, long term wards closing as people are cared for in the community, to name but a few.
Bed occupancy rates are high year round and there is little capacity for sudden increases in demand, as we see every year with Winter pressures, where bed occupancy rates often exceed 95%.
Where to safely discharge the frail elderly patient to, once they are deemed past an acute phase ? This is where social care steps in, patient no longer requiring health intervention, but being unable to care for themselves.
There are very few local authority elderly short term social care beds in the community. So the alternatives are send person home with package of care or pay for a bed in a private home, or utilise a NHS or social care supported discharge scheme.
Even better would be a service that prevents unnecessary admissions in the first place and also provides supported discharge where an admission is unavoidable. Unfortunately the former seems to have fallen out of favour of late, as I keep having to explain to GP's who believe the service is still available in our area.
As an example , an elderly patient develops a UTI , normally self caring, GP prescribes antibiotics, the admission avoidance team goes in up to 4 times a day , ensures the person takes their antibiotics and other medications, makes sure they have meals and drinks, provides any equipment they might need , after a few days the person recovers. Or the person is prescribed antibiotics , doesn't take them due to confusion, doesn't eat and drink, develops a AKI and is admitted to hospital, where the supported discharge service picks them up and does what the admission avoidance team would have done.
Can you see the cost difference ?

@JiminyCricketIsOverForTheSeaon that's weird, as the public system is free (well, you pay via tax similar to the way we do here but free other than that)

Yanbu.
It's hit and miss. For every hero there is a lazy jobsworth.

But apparently your opinion is goady?!

@Randomchatter.

My family has lived in Germany for 30 years and I can assure you that the health care system is free at the point of use.

Oh and I’ve had a mixed bag of treatment. When you are in a crisis (suspected heart attack) they are great. When you need something routine they are ridiculously slow and follow up is poor. Nurses are a mixed bag, some wonderful, some brisk and uncaring. But it’s what we have and we don’t have to pay on top of our taxes so we’ll have to muddle along with it! I would be devastated if we lost it to a fully privatised healthcare system.

No one wants the US system. Its crap. But it's also not the only game in town. Theres a hell of a lit of wastage in the system and a large part of it is because of us and our sense of entitlement. Why are people asking for paracetamol on prescription and why is it being given to them, presumably on free prescriptions (because who would spend £8 instead of 30p?) Why are people calling out ambulances and going to A & E for stupid things? Maybe if there was a European style insurance system people would appreciate the services and the staff more. Otherwise the system will collapse.

@xmasfudge - maybe I have the wrong end of the stick then but I know that they said healthcare was one of their main reasons for moving back to the uk.

The only discussion which is whether to privatise or not is a Bash the Tories trope. However bad the Tories are, the thought of them being able to happily sell off the NHS without being voted out for the next x number of decades makes it clear to me it won't happen.
I would like to see money spent on sport for teens and more-in school exercise - whether it's football or dancing, so that they learn something to carry on into adulthood. Young people today, 20-30 yrs,
do more outdoor sport or gym attending than in the past but there is a huge number who do nothing. You won't play a sport you are bad at. We need to catch them young and get them fit enough to compete and enjoy sport and exercise.

It’s the inverse care law - it’s hardest to access healthcare for the people who most need it. How is it not the govt’s fault how the system is - they only made lots of expensive re-orgs? Continue with PFI despite it leaching money out of the system.

Fair enough if people say people working should put up or shut up - you have a choice. But there are lots of vacancies - which shows how undesirable it is to work in. Which only increases the strain on those remaining... imagine working on a short-staffed ward where you don’t have time to do the job you would like to. Feels quite crappy.

@xmasfudge

I'm comparing like for like... the NHS is more that hospital care.

Among rich countries, Britain is one of the few in which patient consultations with a GP or family doctor are free. Australia, the US, France, Ireland, Sweden – all have varying models of paid-for healthcare under which falling sick will cost you.

UK spending on healthcare as a percentage of GDP is substantially below that of large economies such as the US, Germany and France.