to think that the NHS is really quite shit and that not everyone who works in it is an underpaid hero?

[Adenosine]

There is a strange British preoccupation with the NHS which I think prevents honest public dialogue about its many shortcomings. At the time it was set up it was innovative, but now there are many other universal healthcare systems most of which are better than the NHS and many of which cost less money.

It's ranked low globally and really quite shit yet few people dare criticise or. AIBU to think that we really need to be far more critical?

@babdoc exactly ! best post . I don't think any of us would mind paying extra into the NHS but after reading a lot about the case of a certain boy under NHS southern care and the money and pension earnt by the person who actually "left" after being made responsible for failings , my initial thoughts were she earnt three times as much as the pm? how can that be right ? SHe also authorised millions to make a training video on mental health - to a company run by a friend ? But those percentages are very telling .

Presea I'm happy to be educated on this. I have Austrian family and the healthcare is not free; It is a good standard though.

The NHS has many failings and no, just as in other jobs, there are good workers and others who really shouldn't be there. It should be efficient and more flexible to be able to respond to patient needs. That should be funded by government (through NI and other taxes).

I think though that this thread is like so many others, posted to attempt to influence voting.

Well, with all these comparative countries providing wonderful and free healthcare at point of delivery, why would our government sell off the NHS to the US?

Surely all we have to do is follow the best totally free, non insurance, non bureaucratic model. Job done!

I do agree, however, that people do need to get out of the idea that private is better as the public Hospitals in Oz are amazing with amazing care.

@PreseaCombatir obviously they had some cover staff.

Enthusiasm, I also said I had less good experiences. I have no problem with reform but within the original principle.

@PreseaCombatir and it was only for the mass...none came to the wake after as they had to go back to work :)

In my own hospital, the empire building by managers overflowed the admin block. They were turning biochem labs into managers’ offices to accommodate the extra staff

Great post Babdoc. The NHS is the fifth largest employer in the world. The fourth is Walmart.

obviously they had some cover staff

You said they ‘closed’ lol, that’s makes more sense.

@PreseaCombatir sorry!

@randomchatter

You do realise that the NHS is an insurance based system?

And no politician has ever suggested selling it to the US.

It’s not worked though it has had moments of improved service that then has left he NHS with huge debts

In 1948 healthcare was so different it can’t be compared. The biggest costs now is an aging population but also the many areas of health care now provided was inconceivable back then. The advancement in medical science, the cost of equipment, extra training for staff, patients surviving and needing ongoing care the NHS was not created for what it now has to provide

The thing is, if people want to talk about how many deaths happened under austerity, then it’s equally valid to talk about how many deaths are happening under the NHS failings.
Long waiting lists, GP gatekeeping, people being sent home because there are not enough beds etc.
Why are these dying people not talked about in the same ways as those due t austerity?
Because they should have been grateful that their treatment was free?

My sister lives in America where a family friend had a transplant using private health insurance. The insurance would only pay for his immunosurpressants for 3 years after which he passed away.

Do other countries with private healthcare do this kind of thing? If you are long term very ill, do they pay to take care of you for life?

I guess I'm just curious about this but I'd never be convinced a 2 tier system (or any payment upfront) is morally justifiable.

23PreseaCombatir, those are the same deaths. Under funding the NHS kills.

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Healthcare_expenditure_statistics

The NHS is seriously underfunded compared to other developed EU countries. That is why it delivers poor outcomes.

The 120,000 austerity deaths is a number plucked from the sky.
This has been happening since 2000

The NHS has become a national religion that no one is allowed to criticise. All they ever want is more money, with absolutely no recognition that it's inefficient and sometimes incompetent. I've no doubt it needs more money, but at the same time it needs proper reform and some proper control/efficiency. It's a leaky bucket - Labour trebled the spending but didn't plug the holes, so a lot of the money has been wasted, and worse still, Brown's PFI deals will continue to cost us for generations to come. We ALL need to be honest with the NHS, i.e. it doe need more money, but at the same time, some of the staff/management need to accept their part of the waste/inefficiency and take steps to reduce it. We can't continue just throwing more money at it, sooner or later it will collapse unless efficiencies and waste reduction is taken seriously by those working in it.

I think I read somewhere that browns PFI deals cost triple the amount of the debt that triggered austerity.
He is the one that started this, yet people still blame the tories.

@electricwhisk

The NHS is a tax based system.

No politician has ever suggested selling the NHS (nor would they dare) however there's a lot of activity recently on this platform to prove otherwise

JolieOBrien
That is Labour propaganda in my honest opinion. They are using the NHS to get more votes.

No its not.
Its common knowledge.

But crack on and see you on the other side, when you're paying through the nose just to see your doctor.

I don't think anybody is saying that it's a flawless system, user, it needs proper assessment and some major changes to bring those inefficiencies to the surface and changed. That shouldn't be beyond the wit of our government - any party.

We seem to find endless money for things that the government chooses to fund. The NHS should be the absolute priority; that is what I'm saying.

PreseaCombatir, I'd never defend PFI (which was started by John Major, a tory) but your point was about deaths caused by austerity and deaths in the NHS. PFI debt did not cause austerity, the global financial crisis and the man party's response to that caused austerity.

*main party's

Pretty sure Gordon brown was gung ho about it, claiming it was the only way to save the NHS after the tories. Well done Gordon.
I didn’t say PFI caused austerity.
I said the PHI debt is three times bigger than the debt that triggered austerity.