Sister-in-law is getting a french bulldog puppy and am feeling very judgemental about it!

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From all I’ve read, this breed is riddled with health problems. And the mothers can’t give birth, they have to have c-sections.

I think my sister-in-law is being superficial to get such a breed. I think she likes them because celebrities have them.

I’m being a judgey cow, aren’t I? But who would get such a breed? It must be a vanity thing, right?

Madhouse2010 - try again with punctuation?

Why cant people get a rescue dog rather than encouraging breeders. So many lovely dogs of all sizes needing a home.

I think if you've made your point and warned them abou almost certain future health difficulties and astronomical costs then you need to drop the matter now and leave them to it. We may not like other people's decisions but you don't own them and shouldn't sulk about it. It is there choice and I'm sure the dog will be delightful and much loved.

@Hepsibar It is almost impossible to get a rescue dog from a reputable charity if you have young children. These charities understand that most of their dogs don't want to be dressed up in Disney tiaras and the like.

I feel the same about dachshunds by the way....they scream spinal issues just looking at them. They can barely exercise.

We foster dogs and have had a few frenchies come through our door.

Out of 4 We had one that was fairly well built, could breathe okay (had the non flat nose) and was fairly healthy for the breed. She gives me hope theres a way back.

We have had 3 however that shocked me with how badly they were built as someone not used to the breed. Some you can hear there laboured breathing in the next room, since then i notice in videos many who are constantly "cutely" snuffling. We used to nickname ours pigs or gremlins due to it I mean im no breeder but surely being able to breathe is a start?

The constant snuffling, snorting means that they struggle to make non frenchie friends as not only are their faces hard to read for others but the sound like they are constantly growling.

The amount of care for skin folds is incredible, all 4 of ours came to use requiring fungal cream due to poor up keep. All but one had allergies and most digestive issues (hence the famed farts which are also made worse by their gulping of air during eating due to their face shape)

Other than the obvious boa sugery Our rescue spends lots on spinal surgery and cleft palates. I mean lots. Some of them are not built for life

Ignoring all the health issues, they are also a companion breed thats needy. I mean a watch you while you wee sort of needy. Sadly they are not built for the typical uk dog life of owners working for considerable amounts as they need a lot of love.

It always alarms me when people breed traits into dogs then are surprised when they require more care. In the same way you dont expect a working collie to be happy with a tootle up the road, and being left all day, a frenchie isnt going to do well with long periods alone

Belgian blue cows are another example, poor things - link

I'm surprised so many posters have rescue dogs. Any advice I've read has said you shouldn't have a rescue dog if you have a child. Unless all the posters commenting are child-free but it's not a working solution for a family with a child.

So what should happen to the breed then? Let them die out?

Unfortunately yes, if we’ve got to the point where the vast majority of resulting pedigree dogs are in such poor condition that they struggle enormously with the basics of daily living. I think we’d have to just stop breeding these types of dog, I don’t know if there is a way back from that level of overbreeding. Have we bred them so far into poor form and poor health that we can’t get the old form and health back because we’ve ‘bred it out’ and there aren’t any (or sufficient) examples of it left to put into the gene pool?

Obviously, you can’t guarantee 100% health, longevity and vigour in any person or animal but we all recognise the dog breeds that have been so overbred that they are fighting for breath on walks or breed without human intervention (bulldog males cannot mount successfully, lots of breeds have been bred into shapes that mean females cannot pass their own puppies through their pelvises safely, if at all). Grim.

I have a pedigree dog (not a brachy breed) and his breed is prone to certain health problems nowhere near to the extent of brachys. His breed club have worked hard over the years to establish good quality testing and standards to protect his breed and it is easy enough to find a good quality breeder with a healthy line and low risk (no risk in cases of DNA testable conditions) puppies. The poor quality ones come from mass market commercial breeders, unscrupulous backyard breeders (byb) and puppy farmers.

Unfortunately ‘trendy’ brachy breeds (along with the fashionable crosses like labradoodle and the cockerpoo) are also more likely to come from byb, commercial breeders and puppy farmers. No thought for the health of the puppy, just a high value item to be sold at a great profit

Why does anyone get a dog? Keeping any pet unless you are involved as a RSPCA or similar volunteer is an inherent act of selfishness.

My cat is a rescue. What do you suggest should have happened to him, PTS or left to roam the streets rather than living in a warm house with a safe cat proofed garden, fed regular meals, with his every whim being pandered to?

If your home life is not suitable for a dog, then it's not suitable.

What kind of entitled person would you be to source a dog from a dubious and unethical source regardless of the suitability of your home?

Frenchies are only as bad if they are bred badly - I have 3 and dont really have problems with them!!
Yes they have become a designer breed, yes the rescues are overrun with them but they are beautiful, sensitive, and the most loving dogs ever

I'd be judgy too. Why people continue to buy puppies (especially unhealthy breeds) from breeders is beyond me. There are literally millions of dogs worldwide on the streets and in shelters who need homes.

People should only get pugs / french bulldogs if they can afford the surgery to fix their airways. If someone's not willing to pay that to give them a better quality of life then they're better off getting another dog

But the fact that they are beautiful sensitive and loving doesn't outweigh the physical suffering a lot of these dogs go through

Yes any breed can get health problems but as a veterinary nurse these breeds are absolutely riddled!
They often need surgery to open their airways as their noses are so pushed back into their faces (from awful breeding) their soft pallet literally suffocates them. Often with bulldogs, when we recover them from GA we leave the tube in for a short while after so they can breathe and we don't have to faff getting another tube in when/if it crashes from generally having a higher risk of GA. Cherry eye is also a problem, they're too squat to reach round and itch their own bums, they suffer with terrible teeth problems due to the formation of their jaw, their tails are so short they often curl into their bums and cause bacterial infections because they cannot clean their tails properly when grooming, they are more likely to get dry eye due to the formation of the skull causing their eyes to bulge, excessive skin folds can cause bacterial infections if not cleaned properly... The list goes on!

Yes any breed can get problems, but brachycephalic breeds such as pugs and bulldogs are at a much higher risk of developing something in their life due to the pre existing conditions they are born with.

Speaking of birth, they often cannot naturally give birth and some bulldogs cannot naturally conceive without 'help' (yes, collecting male sperm and putting it into the female). This causes whole heaps of controversy.

Choose something else, there are literally hundreds of breeds or go to the dogs trust/RSPCA/Local shelter. It will cost you less and they've already had a check from a vet.

Another intolerant thread - so nobody is allowed to get a pedigree dog because dogs get sicknesses related to their breed? As long as your SIL is getting it from a reputable breeder and will take care of the dog, it’s none of your business.

Should we put down women that had c-sections?

The french bulldog breeders need to get together to breed out inherent breed problems as happens in other breeds.

I have a pedigree who is ancient and has had a long happy life. Having children is selfish too.

Yes, you're being very judgemental and your statement is ludicrous.

I have owned and bred French Bulldogs for many years, I have had one c section and that was my very first litter due to my own inexperience and anxiety.

I fell in love with their personalities the minute I met one, I was very anal towards breeders and I had a "adopt don't shop" attitude most of my life. Until I fell in love, I currently own 6 who are my LIFE they are health tested to the highest standard and are very healthy dogs.

Don't trust all you read in the media and the crappy breeders churning out litter after litter for money. My recent litter was 6 beautiful healthy puppies and 4 of them I gave away.. one to a previous owner who lost her dog sadly, the others to super homes.. we aren't all in it for the money.

They are amazing dogs. It's her life and her money she is spending, leave her to it!

I know what you mean. Seems like everyone has a dog. I don't know how they manage it responsibly if they are at work all day. All the neighbours have at least one. Sick of the barking. Sick of dodging the 5h1tting machines on the school run.

YANBU regarding the breeding of the frenchies. Like Merles I know people do speak very highly of the dog as a friendly breed but the inevitable health conditions they come with, require extra care and support. I can only imagine these things are exacerbated by back yard breeders and will be a challenge for pet owners expecting an easy life.

Love this! Thank you for your support x

Should we give up on trying to save pandas? They can’t reproduce naturally.

Science is the answer, not banning things you don’t approve of.

No unreasonable at all.

I must admit to judging anyone who pays a breeder good money for a 'fashionable' dog, particularly those that have been bred for looks and subsequently suffer health problems.

Personally I'd ALWAYS goto a rescue centre and choose on personality. This isn't me being 'holier than thou' (I'm definitely not) but I couldn't pay an irresponsible breeder money when I could give a new home to an unwanted animal (cat in my case, I can't have a dog).

Should we give up on trying to save pandas? They can’t reproduce naturally.

Possibly.

It's not really the same though is it? Nobody is breeding pandas for profit. Nobody is buying pandas because they're fashionable and those that ARE trying to breed pandas are doing so for the good of the species not to breed fashionable (read, 'profitable) pets.

@MrsT486 I know several dog breeders too, all of whom got into it because they love their breed and don’t make money from it - the breeder I got my dog from had 9 retired dogs that were her life.

It gets me down when I read these nonsense threads painting ‘breeders’ as one group of billionaire money makers. Ridiculous.

Treepolitics, how is the strawman breeding going?