To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

Oliversmumsarmy and Devereux1 you're describing prejudice & discrimination, not racism.

Snoozysnoozy yes, even then. Still discrimination rather than an entire system built on the exploitation of the white minority living in that country.

The whole concept of race is a very subjective thing. How do you define race? It’s mostly up to different people how they view it. I’m not sure if there is a definitive way of classifying race. So, while racism is a real thing. I don’t see how it’s possible to draw clear lines when the whole concept of race is so unclear.

An American friend told me that when a Hispanic cop shot and killed a black guy without reason, that that couldn’t be defined as racially motivated because the cop wasn’t white. I don’t see how that makes any sense.

@Dutch1e
Oliversmumsarmy and Devereux1 you're describing prejudice & discrimination, not racism

No, we're describing racism. You don't want us to be. You want to believe there's a difference, you want to make it sound a lesser thing.

It's racism. It's even the defintion used for decades and the dictionary definition. Why won't you face up to reality?

No, we're describing racism. You don't want us to be. You want to believe there's a difference, you want to make it sound a lesser thing.

Actually it would be a lot more comfortable for me if you were right. I could shrug and say "well, us white people are also victims of racism, that's how life goes sometimes." Then I could carry on blithely benefitting from the economic, political, and social systems that are fundamentally skewed in my favour.

Devereux1 as an aside, will you please stop tagging me? I'm already on the thread, the double notification is overkill.

My OH thinks the "brown people can't be racist" thing is fucking emasculating. Kinda see her point, it's pretty patronising

And that definitely is an id-pol development

I don't think progressives of the 70s through the 90s thought the answer to inequality was going to be another level of segregation

but racism = prejudice+ power inbalance

Since when? I mean, we all learned about racism in school and the power imbalance part was never mentioned.
Maybe you need another word for racism + power imbalance, because racism doesn't require it.

So when my indian/Kenyan friends dad was racist about a ME family moving in next door who had the upper hand there?

racism (noun)

rac·ism | \ ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b: a political or social system founded on racism
3: racial prejudice or discrimination

I remember reading an autobiography of a (black) Nigerian author. When she came to London she was amazed at the racism she met from black people from the Caribbean.

I could shrug and say "well, us white people are also victims of racism, that's how life goes sometimes."

Yes, you could accept reality. Why do you choose not to?

Then I could carry on blithely benefitting from the economic, political, and social systems that are fundamentally skewed in my favour.

Why have you made that jump? What systems are skewed in the white person's favour, and how exactly?

(btw, I apologise if 'tagging' you was overkill, I am new to MN and merely thought that showing the person's name whose post I am replying to was helpful for everyone to follow the thread and conversations. No other intention was there.)

I absolutely agree cultural appropriation is a thing and can be harmful. I also believe that, in Europe and North America, institutional racism is pervasive throughout society and to the benefit of white people over people of colour.

I don't, however, agree with the attempt to redefine racism in the manner of 'prejudice plus power'. That describes one type of racism (institutional). The insistence, by some, of it as the sole definition of racism is unnecessary, pointless and divisive.

Why have you made that jump? What systems are skewed in the white person's favour, and how exactly?

Jesus, really?

btw, I apologise if 'tagging' you was overkill, I am new to MN and merely thought..
No problem, it's a small thing

Spamantha
I don't, however, agree with the attempt to redefine racism in the manner of 'prejudice plus power'.
If you're white you don't get to define racism, the same way that men don't get to explain everyday sexism to women.

So when my indian/Kenyan friends dad was racist about a ME family moving in next door who had the upper hand there?

Did your Indian/Kenyan friend's dad have 500 years of historical wealth and social structure backing him as the dominant skin colour? Or was he just a bit bigoted?

And what is your point exactly? That we all experience racism so it's a universal equaliser and no-one is really disadvantaged?

Point being that people being crappy to another on the basis of their skin colour or race, it’s just plain old racism.

@Spamantha, it’s not ‘an attempt to redefine racism’. It’s a long-standing definition of racism used by generations of anti-racist activists and educators.

The P+P definition is a stipulative definition used by some academics in certain social-justice discourse. It does not displace the longer-standing and still mainstream definition of racism. Unfortunately, some seem to think otherwise and that 'racism' now only means the P+P definition. It doesn't.

@Spamantha, it’s a widely-used definition, and certainly not confined to a specific strand of academic discourse.

Why have you made that jump? What systems are skewed in the white person's favour, and how exactly?

Jesus, really?

Most interactions with you I've seen involve tiresome displays of outrage, with accusations that other posters must only need to understand more and surely then they'll agree with you.

But you rarely give a clear explanation of anything you are talking about.

The definition of racism which you choose to use, is not one defined in dictionaries, nor used across society for decades. I know you want it to be extended to other things you feel exist, I know that some groups use it, but that doesn't make it valid. Racism is regarding others as inferior directly because of their race. White people can be victims of racism.

You reject this reality, but you won't explan why.
I ask you for a clear example of what systems are skewed in the white person's favour, and again, you won't explain what.

This is more of the "blah blah blah" I referred to at the beginning. It makes your perspective less and less credible with every response.

If you're white you don't get to define racism

You're white?

Degloved yes I am, which is why this isn't my definition. It's the definition that has been written about and spoken about since civil rights activism began.

Devereux1 a few pages ago you (quite rightly) told another poster that it's not your job to do their research for them. So yes, I do get a bit annoyed when you ask for examples of systems that privilege white people.

www.just-fucking-google.it?s=Examples%20of%20institutional%20racism

That first link buries your argument with the opening phrase

... is a form of racism...

You mean there are others?

Dutch1e

which is why this isn't my definition. It's the definition that has been written about and spoken about since civil rights activism began.

It's a definition dreamt up by biased people who want it to mean something it doesn't. Why do you choose to follow that definition, and not the long-held, rational, objective definition used around the world.

Racism is the belief that others are inferior directly because of their race. This is the definition. That you refuse to accept reality, and that white people suffer from racism, merely makes you sound delusional.

a few pages ago you (quite rightly) told another poster that it's not your job to do their research for them. So yes, I do get a bit annoyed when you ask for examples of systems that privilege white people.

I didn't ask you to undertake research for me. I asked you to support your own statements with evidence of your interpretation of the world. It's your view, not mine. I asked to hear it from you.

Your appalling link is just yet another example of your standpoint that the world needs educating, we are missing information. When are you going to wake up? We are not missing the information, your arguments are weak. You fail to convince. You don't explain yourself, you contradict yourself, you use definitions which are made up, you refuse to use correct definitions, you refuse to accept reality that white people suffer from racism.

Sorry, you're all over the place. Still you can't support one thing you say. It's just more incoherent blah blah blah.