To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

June - and then it would depend on if it is the mother or father who named him, especially if the father is white!
My father is British, my first name is not.
Luckily my name is not stigmatised like Muhammed is (!).

Getting hung up on names is a bit silly really. I have links to Ireland, would I name a child an Irish name? if I wanted to, would I need to explain to everyone which ancestors were from Ireland in order to “allow” my link? Is that link close enough? Where does it end?

Taking sacred words, I understand, crosses into cultural appropriation but regular names - and that includes Biblical and religious names because they are absolutely commonplace now and you do not need to be practising to be called David, or Luke or anything from T1 either! - are fair game for selection.

Chai Nashta - I know this, but you’d be surprised not many people do. If someone has no knowledge of the Arabic language they would see the names and think ‘English name.’

Taking sacred words, I understand, crosses into cultural appropriation

But how would you know the difference? For example, using ‘Cohen’ as a name is offensive for Jewish people, as this means ‘priest’. It is a common surname and refers to a hereditary priestly caste within ancient Jewish culture. But it is somehow becoming more common to hear it as a given name - I heard it once in a supermarket in Outback Australia referring to a distinctly non-Jewish child.

@AutumnRose1

Okay, let’s imagine I hear Mausumi and like it and have no connection. Google can’t tell me everything. Is it okay to call my child that name? Or Cerys? Or, um, not arsehole? Must I check every holy book and do major cultural research before choosing?

You can call your child what you like. What you can't do is control how people react to it.

@LolaSmiles Glad to hear that!

I think the OPs DD is named Tigerlily or India. Those are the two girl names that get the name boards buzzing about CA

My oldest is named after a famous Ancient Roman. Neither of us are Roman or Italian. The Romans have done nothing for us!

If she is called something like Kumari, which has cultural or religious significance, then I don't think that is ok

But you'd have to know that. And know that it was insulting to another culture to use it as a name. And be going back to, or spend time in that culture. Personally I can't really think that most people have got the time or headspace to worry that someone thousands of miles away has used a word from their culture to name their child.

People everywhere: take it as the compliment it is meant to be and stop being offended over everything. Life is far too short, worry about the stuff that actually affects you.

My oldest is named after a famous Ancient Roman. Neither of us are Roman or Italian. The Romans have done nothing for us!

I assume this is tongue in cheek! 😂

Yes, just turn a blind eye to any issue that doesn’t directly affect you. That sounds like the way to create a caring, inclusive society.

“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—

 Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.“

Do we have a name yet?

The woman who made the comment is bu not you. She's behaving shamefully, what happens when your poor child hears this confusing message? She's not entitled to her name because she has no roots to that country? She can judge/sneer/work herself up into a froth of indignation if she wishes to about your chosen name, but she can do it at home and not challenge you and hurt your feelings. Face up to her and bollock her.

There are Erins in Ireland though... Erin McGregor for 1

No - it's like calling your child Love, Darling, Sweetheart, Charity, Boyfriend or Girlfriend.*

Well, I would have no problem calling someone Honey as their first name. And tbh I don't call my partner any terms of endearment so I likely wouldn't care about calling another person Love or Darling although would find it an odd choice.

What's wrong with Charity? I think that's a nice name. Not so different to Faith or Grace, Hope.

The woman who made the comment is bu not you. She's behaving shamefully, what happens when your poor child hears this confusing message? She's not entitled to her name because she has no roots to that country? She can judge/sneer/work herself up into a froth of indignation if she wishes to about your chosen name, but she can do it at home and not challenge you and hurt your feelings. Face up to her and bollock her.

And herein lies the problem 👆👆

@TheClaws - totally agree. If you don't like a person's choice of name thats fine- you can think whatever you like, hate it, despise it, frown upon it- but do it in your head. Not every thought that comes into our heads needs to be expressed out loud. The second you start taking it out on and starting rumours that hurt a CHILD, (as is the OP's situation) its not ok. Plus, what are they even hoping to achieve by doing that? are they hoping the OP will change their kid's name because they dont personally approve? (like thats gonna happen!) or are they just hoping to shame the parents and the child along with them? is that enough? should everyone avoid the kid in "punishment" for the name choice? thats basically what is happening to the OP in this situation.
Frankly, that kind of mean spirited behaviour reflects FAR worse on the person disapproving of the name than it does the name bearer- or givers of the name. What kind of person wants to make a child suffer because of their name? I actually find that really disturbing and would actually not think such a person's opinion was worth much.

All of our ancestors did terrible things. We are all “sinners” (if you want to take it there). I know that’s simplistic but it’s how I feel about cultural appropriation. If a floppy haired posh white boy wants to busk playing the didgeridoo and he’s good at it and he’s treating the instrument respectfully, what’s the problem? If he’s dressing up in black face and joking about then that is totally shameful and disrespectful. Show respect and do what you like. If a British couple with no links to China want to give their kid a Chinese name I’ll think they’re a bit stupid (not least because virtually no one will be able to pronounce it properly). But there is no harm in it at all far as I’m concerned.

@TheClaws how do you know for sure that the child is ‘distinctively’ not Jewish ? Unless they were wearing a large cross necklace or a turban which signifies they might be Catholic or Sikh, you can’t know. You’re talking about people being offensive and you’re so sure you’re right-on but it’s just as offensive to assume someonesrace or religion from appearance. Would you look at rapper Drake in one of his music videos and be able to confidently state he isn’t Jewish ? Because he is. Or what about if you saw Isla Fisher (Australian) out and about with her Jewish kids ?

@LoopyLuck, Honey is a bit too sickly for me. Charity is a bit too Emmerdale.
My point is that it is taking a word - a word not a name - and using it as a name without understanding the nuances of the word.

You might want to use Cariad (to mean Charity) as a name, but would you want to use Grâs, Ffydd or Gobaith (Grace, Faith or Hope)?

Say you liked Charity and liked the French word and how it's said and named your child Charité (Sharitay?) - you'd be calling her Handout.

Reminds me of the woman who named her child rouge but pronounced it red. She liked the french spelling better

@BertrandRussell

Does your DS have dreads too?
It was very common around 25 years ago for nice, middle class English white kids to grow dreads and busk with a didgeridoo.
Quite a few of my friends did!
Nobody had heard of cultural appropriation back then though.

Say you liked Charity and liked the French word and how it's said and named your child Charité (Sharitay?) - you'd be calling her Handout.

So what? Should people in countries where Fanny is a popular name for girls give a damn what Fanny means in British English? or should English-speaking people care what Pippa means in Greek?

The only hesitation I would have is for sacred/religious names like Muhammad or Jesus (and I know that Jesus is a very popular name in South American/Spanish speaking cultures), otherwise don't tie yourself in knots.

Is the name Pontius Pilate?

@SheOfManyNames, it might be a consideration if you thought that your child might want to travel to the USA or the UK.

If you want to call your children Penny and Con, then move to France, so what if they get bullied at school?

It was very common around 25 years ago for nice, middle class English white kids to grow dreads and busk with a didgeridoo.
Quite a few of my friends did!
Nobody had heard of cultural appropriation back then though

Well, maybe nobody white had heard of it, or cared to ask.