To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

Yes it bloody well did exist and anyone who cared to ASK about didgeridoos and dreads before casually deciding to just take them knew it.

I'm pretty sure the phrase or even concept wasn't widely known or used in the mid-90s.
Academics may have been writing about cultural appropriation, but it wasnt't a concept that every day people used, and certainly not mentioned in the media in the way it is now.

The entire concept of cultural appropriation is absolute bollocks.

If you've got a problem with someone from the Caribbean selling clotted cream and jam on scones: you're a racist.

If you've got a problem with Jamie Oliver selling jerk rice: you're a racist.

To everyone who is policing what people of each race can and can't do, I say this: Fuck. Off.

The entire concept of cultural appropriation is absolute bollocks.

People who clearly don't understand the concept at all seem bizarrely invested in reiterating why it's such nonsense. This thread also suggests there's a considerable overlap between people who think cultural appropriation is nonsense and those who think that white people can be victims of racism.

I do think it’s interesting how incredibly vehement the “it’s all bollocks” posters are on threads like this. So much more so than the people who just think that there might be a point.

this thread also suggests there's a considerable overlap between people who think cultural appropriation is nonsense and those who think that white people can be victims of racism.

Oh let me guess, you're using "systemic racism" or "structural racism" to mean "racism"? Because generally I think anybody who is racially prejudiced is racist, regardless of skin colour. "Oh no that's just prejudice, not racism" - right, so because of the patriarchy then only men can be sexist right? When a woman says someing negative about all men "that's just prejudice not sexism". Bullshit.
White people can be the victim of racism - in one video online a white woman was attacked in front of her young child simply for walking through a predominately black neighbourhood in USA, and the attackers were shouting "wrong neighbourhood bitch" - they targeted her based on her race, they beat her up base on race, that's racism. You can say it's not structural racism if you want, but that's not the common meaning of racism is it? Most people view racism as prejudice based on skin colour or ethnicity, much like sexism is prejudice based on sex.

Sounds like she's one of those who likes to be offended for no reason. Give her a reason and tell her to fuck off. Job done

those who think that white people can be victims of racism.

I'm non-white and I think white people can be victims of racism.

I think I read somewhere that there are two schools in the USA, one 99% white private school and the other 99% African American public school. You can argue that the fact the predominately white school is the private school points to systemic racism (disparity in wealth and opportunities etc).
But would you really argue that if the 1% of white students in the public school were bullied for being white, that's not at least your everyday basic racism?

Why call one racism and the other prejudice based on race, why not naming one structural racism and the other racism. Or when a woman says something sexist about a man should I say "well if he said that about you it would be sexist because he as a male hold the power, but this is genderal/sexual prejudice?"

It's nothing new, imagine the uproar that first Christmas when Mary & God gave their only son a traditional Mexican name.

Moonmelodies 😁

I'm pretty sure the phrase or even concept wasn't widely known or used in the mid-90s.
Academics may have been writing about cultural appropriation, but it wasnt't a concept that every day people used, and certainly not mentioned in the media in the way it is now.

Ok, I take your point about the term. I'm also coming at this from a different background - being from New Zealand and Australia indigenous sensitivity (or deep lack of) is often a conversation. So I'm baffled when a white person casually lifts whatever they want without stopping to wonder for even a moment if they should keep their hands off. White privilege wasn't a term in the 90s either I guess.

@PotteryWheel

People who clearly don't understand the concept at all seem bizarrely invested in reiterating why it's such nonsense.

Are you saying you perceive those who hold a difference point of view to you seem strangely persistent in maintaining their point of view, instead of obliging you with agreeing with you?

When you say "who don't clearly understand the concept", can you provide an example of where someone has misunderstood the concept?

This thread also suggests there's a considerable overlap between people who think cultural appropriation is nonsense and those who think that white people can be victims of racism.

Why, do you not believe that white people cannot be victims from those who believe they are inferior in something because of their race?

Sigh. Of course white people can be the victims of individual acts of race-based hate crime, bullying etc. Surely in 2019 we're past the point of anyone having to repeat hoary old definitions of racism as prejudice plus power?

Are you saying you perceive those who hold a difference point of view to you seem strangely persistent in maintaining their point of view, instead of obliging you with agreeing with you?

No. I am delighted to encounter intelligently-argued points of view that are not the same as mine on any issue. However, anyone who feels that the hilariously witty example of someone from the Caribbean making scones and clotted cream is the same as Jamie Oliver making jerk rice and thinks that this demonstrates that cultural appropriation is 'bollocks' has clearly the most minimal understanding of the issues.

@PotteryWheel

Of course white people can be the victims of individual acts of race-based hate crime, bullying etc.

Just for clarity since you have used different words: do you agree white people can be victims of racism?

anyone who feels that the hilariously witty example of someone from the Caribbean making scones and clotted cream is the same as Jamie Oliver making jerk rice and thinks that this demonstrates that cultural appropriation is 'bollocks' has clearly the most minimal understanding of the issues.

Perhaps your view of what are intelligently-argued points, and what aren't, is biased? Using the example you gave, it would seem to be one of logic and a fair, intelligent point.

I can't seem to find your explanation of why that comparison "shows a minimal understanding of the issues". How does it?

I wanted my kids' names to reflect their heritage and family history, to give them a connection to the country both me and my husband and all their grandparents are from; probably more so because we don't live there now.

I will admit I get a bit irritated when I see Anglicised versions of their names, especially when (to me) they sound mispronounced when spoken.

However, that's what happens. Languages, cultures, traditions, customs....everything evolves and changes, all the time. We should probably just embrace it.

Having said that, I wholeheartedly agree that there is a lot of ignorance regarding the issue, and people should probably do some research before choosing a name, rather than basing it on whether they like it.

Just for clarity since you have used different words: do you agree white people can be victims of racism?

Potterywheel clearly does NOT agree, having tiredly pointed out IN THE NEXT SENTENCE that racism is prejudice + power. Systemic power is the key element of racism. White systems fundamentally privilege white skin over brown or black skin and that's without even pointing out that almost all white English-speaking countries have built their wealth on slavery and resources stolen from countries populated by black and brown people.

Before anyone brings up the Irish strawman again, yes, the Irish were treated brutally. However an Irish person can change their name & accent. They shouldn't have to but they can. A person cannot change the colour of their skin.

I can't seem to find your explanation of why that comparison "shows a minimal understanding of the issues". How does it?*

You've answered your own question and I strongly recommend Googling "white privilege" with an open mind.

@Dutch1e

Can't you see, it's your kind of response which makes many people see "blah blah blah", switch off and reject anything you say?

Especially the "I strongly recommend Googling "white privilege" with an open mind" bit. It's really laughable, and does your own cause no favours I must add, that comments like that really mean this:

"Because you do not agree with me, I must believe you do not understand enough. You just need educating. That's the only possibility here. I cannot even entertain the reality that I might be wrong, that the concepts I talk about are piffle, that you are right, that perhaps I need to open my mind more."

Of course I don't need to Google "white privilege". Of course I don't need a more open mind, merely because I do not accept what you say. I understand what it is and I reject it, and what you say, completely. I disagree with you.

Of course white people can be victims of racism.

They can’t. Prejudice yes, but racism = prejudice+ power inbalance, and white people dont exoerience that.

However an Irish person can change their name & accent. They shouldn't have to but they can. A person cannot change the colour of their skin

Are you saying all white people look the same.

Even if you are white, no matter how easy or hard it is to change your accent or name you can see where people come from.

I am white but spent my childhood with racist remarks as I don’t look English.
We were an immigrant family.

I mentioned to a friend a few years ago where my branch of the family were from.

Her remark was “I see it now, always knew you weren’t English. I have been to that country and you look just like the women there”

Are you saying all white people look the same

My point was that Irish people can change their accent but a black person cannot change the colour of their skin, apologies for being unclear.

Can't you see, it's your kind of response which makes many people see "blah blah blah", switch off and reject anything you say?

I can see it, yes. But I'm not really speaking directly to you - you're the proverbial fish who refuses to notice water and that's your choice to make. I'm speaking to other people reading this thread who might be willing to look at things from a different angle, and I'm speaking in support of people who deal with systemic racism every day.

@Dutch1e

you're the proverbial fish who refuses to notice water and that's your choice to make.

There you go again. No, I don't refuse anything, My eyes are wide open, I see your murky water and I don't want to jump in and swim with you.

I'm speaking to other people reading this thread who might be willing to look at things from a different angle

There you go again. I wonder what is behind your immediate assumption that someone who disagrees with you is lacking information, or education, or willingness. I am willing to look at things from a different angle. I have looked at this subject matter in depth. I have looked at it from your angle. And I reject your perspective. I disagree with you completely.

I'm speaking in support of people who deal with systemic racism every day.

I support all those who experience racism. That includes white people. Why don't you?

I support all those who experience racism. That includes white people. Why don't you?

How can you say you are supportive when you've flat-out said upthread "there is nothing wrong with cultural appropriation?"

I don't support white victims of racism because their aren't any. Discrimination & prejudice, yes. But reverse racism is a myth.

@Dutch1e

How can you say you are supportive when you've flat-out said upthread "there is nothing wrong with cultural appropriation?"

Because your starting point is that cultural appropriation is racist, mine is that it isn't. So if cultural appropriation isn't racist, it's entirely logical to support those who suffer racism, isn't it?

I don't support white victims of racism because their aren't any. Discrimination & prejudice, yes. But reverse racism is a myth.

Do you believe a white person has never been judged by non-white people to be inferior because of their race?

Dutch1e what has accents got to do with anything?

I have Romanian friends, Polish friends, Irish friends and Jewish friends and it isn’t their accents or their names that show where they are from.

It is written over people’s faces their nationality.

Or at least I can tell.

Maybe because I have friends from different countries that I pick up on different facial combinations

I don’t need someone to tell me their name or speak to see where they are from.

But reverse racism is a myth.

Even if you're a white person in a non white country?