To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

@Gallievespian

Definitely, Irish people have a history of being seen as 'lesser' than other white people as part of their diaspora and British rule, but its more nuanced than that. They have certainly benefited from white supremacy as emigrants too.

Whether it's outright violence, say the New York draft riots, or assimilating as 'British' in Buenos Aires to distinguish themselves from other immigrants, Irish have benefited.
I agree that Irish have also been persecuted but I was replying to someone who was claiming they couldn't benefit as Irish people.

I was also glad to see the notion of 'irishness' being questioned by a previous poster!

@Devereux1

It would be grossly ironic for white people to start getting offended by people of colour adopting any of our customs or traditions, after centuries of forcing many of these onto different parts of the world as cruel colonial masters.

I have a feeling @WatchingTheMoon may be trying to communicate something along the lines of what I have also been trying to express, see above, about the power dynamics that have been at play in the last century or two between different races and groups- and how that affects issues like CA.

However, many posters are unswerving in their position and in some cases seemingly willing misunderstanding of cultural appropriation as a concept, see the trotting out of Greek names for the zillionth time. Oh, poor ancient Greeks- bedrock of western civilisation. Not comparable.

@Cyberworrier
It's a pity @WatchingTheMoon couldn't back up what they wrote about some races being allowed to use the cultural appropriation term, and others not, despite being asked several times. Makes their argument look plain silly, doesn't it?

But I appreciate your post. Could you elaborate? For example, what is the source of any "offence", which for example, it would be ironic if white people had. What is offensive exactly?

Oh wait

So if a white person takes my name - originally from an oppressed country - that’s bad?

I would pleased if other nationalities liked my name enough to use it and to make it universal.

I’m off to watch the “Resisting Woke” lecture that was posted in Feminist Chat.

Bloody strikeout fail

—strikeout?—

strikeout

Aridane
I have loads of black friends who don't mind me pinging their afro hair. Some people are just so uptight these days.

Much as I have my own issues with the term cultural appropriation and how it can be used, it's fairly damn obvious that taking a name from a culture that's nothing to do with you and using it because you think it's cool and unique (when others have, and are, still discriminated for having that name) is a weird thing to do. I don't get people trying to claim they would totally not bat an eyelid if they met a white British family with their children all called South Asian / Muslim / traditional african names.

Though I have a feeling this may be like the threads about clothing for kids when online people claim they're so liberal that they'd not think there was anything wrong with a 9 year old in sexualised style clothing and a face of makeup to a bowling party when we all know in reality they'd never let their child stress like that.

The deep and wilful refusal on this thread to even entertain the concept that cultural appropriation exists is embarrassing to witnesss

Oh, @Dutch1e - I don’t know.

After all, what’s wrong with using another’s country’s exotic names?

Or wearing their fancy dress clothing?

Or using make up to look like them blacking up?

Or, you know, using insulting long and well established language to describe their ethnicity or skin colour?

Bah humbug PC nonsense snowflakes my Pakistani friend doesn’t mind being called a Paki there is no such thing as cultural appropriation

head explodes

😡

She's being ridiculous. In fact I think most cultural appropriation arguments are ridiculous with a few exceptions. We should mix up influences from other cultures, it's usually a good thing - there is nothing wrong with doing so. If you go back far enough we are all African so how far back is it ok for me to go to use an Irish or wherever name. Parents, grandparents, great grandparents. I now have cousins who were born and live in Ireland. Does that mean I can have an Irish make it not?

I think this type of thing diverts is from the important issues surrounding discrimination such as workplace discrimination, health discrimination and the gender pay gap. Me choosing an Irish or African or whatever name because I like it is really not important.

I think this type of thing diverts is from the important issues surrounding discrimination such as workplace discrimination, health discrimination and the gender pay gap
The problem is that there's some overlap on those issues.

For example, identical CVs get judged differently based on whether the person has a black/white name. So someone with white British heritage taking a name typically from black culture gets to have the "kudos" of an unusual name but with the security of a white European surname, or in person the advantage of being white. Someone who's black still has their name and heritage as a barrier.

I've oversimplified there somewhat but these things are linked.

AutumnRose1 I would be fascinated to know how much overlap there is between the woke who get upset about cultural appropriation, and the woke who don't bat an eyelid about men putting on .womanface, indeed champion it.

I’m curious, what do non whites borrow from white culture?

I guess black women straining their hair into 'white' acceptable hairstyles / hair for the work place?

Adopting 'white' style names to fit in (call centres)

Skin whitening

Reported eyelid plastic surgery to look more western

To be fair white culture wants to borrowed. Hollywood sells it.

@TeaAndStrumpets

Yes, so would I. They are the same people who think they are doing me a favour by deciding I’m not really British because of my skin colour and I’m not really a woman because I don’t wear dresses or makeup!

But perhaps if my white goddaughter had been named after me, her parents would have been accused of CA? Or is it okay if she’s named after her godmother? I’m not sure.

I have also bought a beautiful Celtic cross in a second hand shop. I’m girding myself for questions about my “right” to wear it, I don’t know, hopefully people aren’t that mad in real,life?

You see, if I thought people were hunting down .CA from kind charitable motives, fair enough. However, it seems be fuelled by resentment of people who are long dead, and an excuse to belittle and scold modern day people. Rather a witch hunt I think!

To be fair white culture wants to borrowed. Hollywood sells it.

By conflating ‘white’ culture and I’m assuming USA culture, you’re highlighting why it’s important to challenge discrimination and inequality. How othering for people of colour, to have diversity and the contributions made by PoC, effectively denied.

I imagine I may be over literal reading your post @Havaina but it does highlight how ingrained some prejudices are- that small slips of language/thought can be quite offensive/provocative.

@Devereux1 I don’t think Moon’s lack of response to you made their argument seem weak or silly. I thought their post was concise and made sense, maybe they were just busy and didn’t have as much time to try to explain their point of view as I have had today!

But I appreciate your post. Could you elaborate? For example, what is the source of any "offence", which for example, it would be ironic if white people had. What is offensive exactly?

I think you’re asking what’s offensive about borrowing from other cultures... if so, I think @Aridane ‘s post is pretty thought provoking.

*After all, what’s wrong with using another’s country’s exotic names?

Or wearing their —fancy dress— clothing?

Or using make up to look like them —blacking up—?

Or, you know, using insulting long and well established language to describe their ethnicity or skin colour?*

I also think @aridanes list of how people of colour sometimes feel they have to adapt to become more ‘white’ (acceptable?) makes somber reading and I hope provoked some thought in those who genuinely don’t get this issue that disproportionately effects the marginalised.

@TeaAndStrumpets

Also an opportunity to crow over people for having less knowledge of...well, everything.

Assuming my mum goes before me, I’m going to change my name. I don’t like having a name that has no connection with my culture. No matter who tries to tell me what my culture is.

My parents Did consider giving me an English name as a middle names, but alas, they didn’t. Probably someone would eventually say it’s not an English name anyway because of some continents drifting several billion years ago.

Someone upthread mentioned “Aoife” - love that name!

Autumn I think we should be allowed to change our names every few years to keep up with trends! Mine is terribly old fashioned but not in a good way

What is "white culture?" It's such a strange concept to view all people of the same skin color as being of one homogenous culture.

@SofiaAmes “ It's such a strange concept to view all people of the same skin color as being of one homogenous culture.”

This.

@TeaAndStrumpets
give it a few minutes and it’ll be back in vogue!

My daughter’s name is Russian, a well known of a diminutive of another Russian name (is not Natalie/Natalya/Natasha). It’s very well known in the UK if not that often used. Most often heard comment is “that's a lovely name, unusual without being hard to spell or totally unfamiliar”. There’s a family link to Russia on her dads side.

I absolutely love the name Priya, I think it is one of the most beautiful names ever. However with absolutely no link to India or Hinduism I think using it would set my child up for a lifetime of “but why?”.

Some names have crossed cultures, Layla, Isabella, Luca, Aoife. Some crossed cultures so long ago that people don’t even realise that they have done - James, Alexander, Hannah etc. Others haven’t yet and possibly won’t. I wouldn’t raise an eyebrow at a non Italian calling their son Luca. I would at one calling calling their son Angelo, for example.

@Cyberworrier
But @Aridane's post which you refer to merely asks questions, and does not answer them. Her last question, "What is wrong with using insulting.." is obviously ridiculous and isn't an objective question. It's like "What is wrong with.. painfully, deliberately and with murder in mind... making me a cup of tea?"

I'm Scottish so should I be insulted every time I see someone wearing tartan? There are some Scottish names which have Anglicised spellings such as Mhari/Vhari, Eilidh/Ailie, Katrina/Catriona etc but I would never think it's insulting to my nationality. In fact, I think it's quite nice that people have liked somethng from another culture.