To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

Would you name your child Darling? Sweetheart?

Amy means 'loved' and I can think of at least one person called Cherie.

if a culture has faced oppression and discrimination and then someone who has no understanding of this comes along and steals a name etc

This is utter bollocks. You cannot "steal" a name. The nature of theft is that it deprives the rightful owner of being able to use the asset.

That's bollocks too, you can steal someone's music, recipes, artwork, identity - loads of things.

Interesting perspective Mouse, but I’m trying to suggest the process in which over thousands of years different cultures have had irrefutable influences on each other. Eg, from Greece to Rome, to the Holy Roman Empire, with all the literature and art and politics along the way. The way in which Latin was still the language of learning during the Renaissance, which undoubtedly has shaped our culture today. Basically, just saying someone having a Greek name like Sophie has hardly plucked it out of nowhere! It may not be ‘really’ English/British (by which you’d mean, Celtic, that’d probably be Gaelic.. Anglo-Saxon, German? Norman French?) but as others have said, what is...? It may as well be for the amount of time it’s been a popular name within our culture.

In response to your second point- I suppose given the discussion of various names (particularly Arabic/Islamic ones), it just made me think of the absolute insensitivity and lack of self awareness shown by privileged UK citizens to the feelings of others, including our Prime Minister. 🤷‍♀️ So maybe I shouldn’t be surprised by the responses on this thread.

@Cyberworrier, I'm not pretending racism doesn't happen. It happens from all races. I grew up in a country where we were in the minority group and my father was aggressively harassed out of a park that he often used to go to at lunch time by people saying it was their park and he should go back to where he came from, to name just one incident. But looking for things to be offended about and making a big deal out of something like naming a child with a name from a different culture, which does no harm to anyone, does not help victims of real, intentional racism.

Yes but the woman in question asked OP if she has links to this culture, she didn't assume. It was when OP said she didn't that she expressed that it was weird.

We don't know how weird it was/wasn't anyway as we still don't know what the name is!

just saying someone having a Greek name like Sophie has hardly plucked it out of nowhere!

At some point Sophie was plucked from nowhere.

Is the idea that there should be no new names from now on or just that everyone gets to select from an approved list according to their assigned culture?

I'm putting dibs on the name being "Anoushka" but I guess we'll never know :(

It was when OP said she didn't that she expressed that it was weird.

But I am sure the OP didn't name her daughter with the intention of offending other people.

On the other hand I think it's incredibly insensitive to say that a name somebody chose for their child is weird. It's obvious that it will cause hurt, and it's particularly pointless if the child has already been called that name for 6 years.

Yes, that’s exactly what I was meant when I listed several civilisations inextricably linked to our own and four peoples who occupied these islands in the last few millennia- one rigid, narrowly defined, assigned culture.
The name thing may not be a big deal to everyone, but it can be for some people (eg the discussion of the name Saorsa meaning freedom and the tactlessness of people using the name without understanding the politics/history). I think it’d be nice if people showed more respect and strove for more understanding of each other. Maybe one day the name thing truly won’t be a big deal ever 🤞But it’s indicative of the low expectations set for compassion and respect in our society and how people live in different worlds in the same country that there is so little understanding of why this could be a problem. 🤷‍♀️

Yes, that’s exactly what I was meant when I listed several civilisations inextricably linked to our own and four peoples who occupied these islands in the last few millennia- one rigid, narrowly defined, assigned culture.

I think you are looking back at thousands of years of history from the perspective of somebody living in 2019, not from the perspective of the people alive at the time who would have had no sense of being inextricably linked to other cultures.

Are you saying that I’m being culturally insensitive to the Anglo-Saxons for discussing the chronology of UK history and the interconnectedness of different cultures?! Being lighthearted of course.
I do apologise to any Anglo Saxons or indeed Celts lurking on this thread. My historical references were more meant to contextualise some of the misleading pronouncements made about being ‘British’ but with a ‘Greek’ name.

@FromEden

Irish people did very well in some Western colonies, see India and Argentina for examples.

Where there were a variety of immigrants to a country, such as the US, many Irish did well as they were white and therefore assimilated further up the hierarchy.

This is part of the white supremacy that was exported with European empires, and is still prevalent today, hence white privilege.

@rockingchaircandle, in fact Irish people have a long history of not being considered white by the UK and US. See the long and unpleasant history of 19th Punch cartoons depicting Irish people with caricatured ‘African’ features aimed at discrediting Home Rule, and the anthropologists who measured skulls and took photographs up and down the west coast of Ireland in the 1880s and 1890s plotting Irish features on an ‘Index of Nigrescence’, l for the ‘Negroid Celt’. In the 19thc US, Irish people were only gradually ‘admitted’ to whiteness — there’s quite a lot of research on how Irish immigrants ‘racial’ status changed over time. In the 1850s, Irish immigrants were commonly viewed as ‘n——s turned inside out’, while black Americans were ‘smoked Irish’.

Where there were a variety of immigrants to a country, such as the US, many Irish did well as they were white and therefore assimilated further up the hierarchy

How ignorant are you? Irish were very discriminated against in the US as they had really negative stereotypes surrounding them (and, Catholic). I think recently they uncovered a mass grave of Irish rail workers, around 50 iirc. Just dumped and never reported.

Later the Italians faced the same sort of problems (though probably not piled into mass graves or anything)

Lots of Scottish names are used without having Scottish relatives - for example Isla is massively popular in England, Angus, Ruaridh, Eilidh. Lachlan is also really popular in Australia but I only met one Lachlan in Scotland.

Don’t forget the MacKenzies...

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Many people have English / Scottish surnames as their ancestors were owned as slaves by those people like my DH. He has a traditional Scottish surname which people find odd.

Surnames not first names. I find Mac... as a first name odd.

@merrymouse, Amy is a name. Darling and sweetheart are terms of endearments, not names. Admittedly, Darling and Love are surnames.

I think nmaes like Chuck, Buddy, and so on are a bit naff, but might be OK in the USA.

I know people called Amour, Blessing, Mercy, Peace and so on, but those names are fine for them.

I would struggle to call someone Cariad. Too intimate.

*It's no more strange than calling a child River or Apple”

Well- as I said earlier, Cariad Lloyd says that Welsh people she has met so find it strange...*

Amongst Welsh speaking Welsh people there is no tradition of using Cariad as a name.

Even though there are lots of “noun” names e.g

Enfys- rainbow
Heulwen - sunshine
Haf - summer
Eira - snow
Awen- muse
Alaw - melody

Craig isn’t a Welsh name - it is the (differently pronounced) Welsh word for rock.

Someone in my NCT group gave their DC a Japanese named despite not being Japanese. The sort of name that everybody struggles to spell or pronounce unless they are Japanese. They changed it within four months of their birth.

Tbh I think that unless you have strong links with a certain culture then naming your child according to another group's customs or traditions is cultural appropriation. That's what cultural appropriation is.

If you're cool with that then fine I guess, but personally i wouldn't be.

@SerenDippitty I’ve always absolutely loved the name Eira but I knew a Norwegian lady called it and apparently it’s also from Norse mythology ! I didn’t know it was also welsh 😊

Every society, every nation, every aspect of life culturally appropriates something. It's about time the whole outrage of this basic reality is challenged and put out with the bins.

Every society, every nation, every aspect of life culturally appropriates something. It's about time the whole outrage of this basic reality is challenged and put out with the bins.

Amen sister.