To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

The lack of understanding of cultural appropriation is devastating in this post.

The whole point of CA is people in a dominant position ie white people taking parts of oppressed cultures. Simple examples are things like cornrowing a white childs hair (kylie Jenner did this not that long ago) and everyone saying how cute it is when black children are excluded from school for wearing that hairstyle as it's considered an extreme hairstyle.

Even today black women often feel forced to conform to white beauty standards particularly with their hair, institutional barriers discourage BAME ladies from wearing their hair natural –they are much more likely to find and keep jobs if they meet standards of professionalism that oftenban or look down on Black women’s natural hairstyles.

White women face sexism, and they may be oppressed in other ways, too – through ableism, classism, or fatphobia, for example. But when it comes to race, white women have more institutional power than Black women.

So while weshouldbe treated as equals,we’re not. A white woman is free to take on and take off the same hairstyle that a Black woman would be ostracized for.

Until we correct that imbalance, then when Kylie Jenner wears cornrows for example, she’s acting on privilege and exploiting Black culture. She’s participating in a toxic norm that says Black people aren’t valuable, but our hair is cool – as long as white folks are wearing it. That’s not okay. If she really thinks Black folks are cool and wants to honour our culture, she should help eradicate the inequality between us instead.

BAME men and women face oppression every day in this country and just because you cant see it or it doesnt affect you doesnt mean it isnt real.

You dont get to take things from a culture you have power and privilege over.

“I went to school with a white girl who had an Indian name, her parents just liked it and we thought it was so exotic”

I think white people considering others (by way of their names) as ‘exotic’ is part of the problem.

I’m not blaming you as a child, but the whole ‘Ooooh’ reaction to anything foreign must be wearing if you are that foreign person.

I have seen countless threads on MN where W African names get mocked in ‘worst names in your child’s class ‘ threads, when people don’t realise that ‘Blessing’, for example, is perfectly normal. Hard to pronounce, hard to spell, viewed as mystical or exotic, “oooh, that’s unusual”, it all must be so wearing for some people.

It’s very ‘othering’. So using another cultures name because it is ‘unusual’ or ‘exotic ‘ when it is their equivalent of Jane or Mary might cause anti of an eye roll.

Wring for the woman to gossip about it though.

So, is it Olusola? Abiola? Lakshmi? Khadija?

@FlamingoandJohn: I know a Bronwen, yep, she's Australian. TBF though it's not that surprising given that most of my family are resident New Zealanders and Australians. I'm one of the few over here sadly

But surely if I introduced myself to someone from a tiny island who had never heard my name before they might think of it as exotic? Is it now offensive to have never heard a name before and comment to that effect? Good grief.

I’m not blaming you as a child, but the whole ‘Ooooh’ reaction to anything foreign must be wearing if you are that foreign person

The girl I was talking about wasn't foreign.

Ah yes, “exotic”

“Where are you really from?”

@Nursing83 this is far better explained than I did!

I find the kardashians as a whole horrendous perpetrators of CA. Their entire look is inspired by BAME cultures yet they never stand up for black lives matter or challenge the racism that plagues the US. That they are married to black men doesn't excuse this. In fact it almost feels quite fetish-like. As someone married to a black man it doesn't give me a "golden ticket" to appropriate if anything I should be held to a higher standard as I can't be accused of naive ignorance. I'm always very conscious of CA and for example would never in a million words says the n word even if it was in a song lyric.

Another one alongside exotic is "cool". Absolutely everyone says how cool DH is. All the time. It's meant well. I know it is. But it is grating.

@Howlovely Naming a child a certain name because you like it, understand the meaning of the name and it has a significance to you is fine. Naming a child because the name is just "exotic" or "cool" could be cultural appropriation.

Interestingly my daughter actually has a Muslim middle name though it also has Irish roots. Due to my family background and her ethnicity it would never be considered cultural appropriation.

Well said Nursing83

@Howlovely in most cultures names have meaning. So the islanders would likely ask you what the meaning of your name was.

So a girls name that has an English variant but which is clearly from one particular country? Plus, it must be a country where people are touchy about their names being used. I'm so curious what it could be. All I can think of is Yael, Defne or Lucija?

@Howlovely in most cultures names have meaning. So the islanders would likely ask you what the meaning of your name was

Yes, thank you for explaining that names have meaning. I used the phrase 'tiny island' because the UK is a tiny island! I've never heard people refer to Brits as 'islanders' so are you assuming I meant a different tiny island? If so, why assume that these 'islanders' don't wish to ask what somebody's name means? This is coming across as only white British people are capable of being culturally insensitive.

I was raised in a pretty multi cultural way with friends from multiple heritages at primary and secondary. You do have to admit that there are certain names you have to consider as being unsuitable for living in a particular area. Says who? If the names are connected with the family's heritage then they are eminently suitable - just because people where they live are narrow-minded shouldn't be a reason not to call your children names connected with your culture. The fact that you joke about the names and can't even be bothered getting them correct is patronising and racist, despite who happened to be in your school.

Ghjulia maybe.

Cariad Lloyd has a Welsh grandfather. . She has talked about how her name not actually being a name but a term of endearment has sometimes caused difficulties - apparently she worked with a Welsh speaking director once who found it impossible to call her by her name because “That was what he called his wife”!

Thanks for that @BertrandRussell. Did not know she had a Welsh grandfather and yes can imagine that being a problem for the Welsh speaking director. I would find it odd too!

@Howlovely Naming a child a certain name because you like it, understand the meaning of the name and it has a significance to you is fine. Naming a child because the name is just "exotic" or "cool" could be cultural appropriation

Again, thanks for the explanation, I am aware of what cultural appropriation means.
I have never stated that her parents thought her name was 'cool or 'exotic', I said that we, as children in a very small Welsh primary school with mainly Welsh names, thought it was exotic. Just as we did when an Alicia joined.
Also, Bertrand, please stop looking for things that aren't there.

HowLovely
“The girl I was talking about wasn't foreign”

I know.
A) she was given a ‘foreign’ name because it was ‘exotic’
B) how might that make people from that culture feel?

Actually I regret using the word ‘foreign’ (I was between two possible sentences in my head and used the wrong word).

It isn’t about anyone being foreign it is about some people’s cultures being used as an exotic pick n mix to spice up Baby naming, while they themselves are treated as ‘other’ in a distancing way every day of their lives.

And I specifically said I wasn’t blaming you or any of the children in the school. This is about a principle and how it could be perceived by the people from the other culture.

I know.
A) she was given a ‘foreign’ name because it was ‘exotic

No, she wasn't. You are making huge assumptions.

Whatever, HowLovely.
Either you are prepared to hear how it might be from the other side or you aren’t.

No one is saying it was done out of ill intent. It obviously wasn’t.

But the (natural / understandable ) reaction in children then perceiving the name to be exotic is wearing to people who use the name as part of their culture and are other ex or alienated for it.

Listen, or don’t.

@motherogod ok whatever mate. I’m a massive racist then. You seem to be in a completion with yourself to be the most woke person in the planet. Vile. What are your kids called then ?

I've also been appalled at the threads on here about names associated with BAME people being denigrated - taking the piss out of someone's name or counselling that people shouldn't call their children a name connected with their culture is ethnic erasure and racist. This article makes that point (and others) pretty well - www.stylist.co.uk/long-reads/how-to-pronounce-names-bias-poorna-bell/329642

Actually I am not a whole hearted supporter of the whole CA argument but yet again I am depressed and dismayed by a thread which so clearly demonstrated how and why such theories become so strongly held.

I’ve learned so much about cultural appropriation from this thread. I didnt realise how ignorant I was.

I’ve scrolled back through all 19 pages and can’t see any response from the OP. Was I just being blind? Did she ever come back and say what country the name was originally from? If it was another European country would it still be considered cultural appropriation?