To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

Nobody owns names. Use whatever you like.

I'm heading off as I have a little one. I'm just trying to present a different view point. I'm not the spokesperson for cultural appropriation. I have based my opinion on conversations with Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Nigerian and Jamaican friends including my DH. Others from the same country may feel totally different! Though there are shared experiences people have different ideas and thoughts! I just know that my DH feels strongly about cultural appropriation and has many instances of it in his life.

“if you hold down the letter a little bar with all the variants of that letter should appear”

This is a revelation! Thank you, herocomplex

doadeer - out of interest, how would your DH feel if you appropriated things from his culture? Wore traditional dress etc. Is it completely unacceptable for you to appropriate any aspect of his culture? Because if you are white, then I guess it should be. Does that cause issues?

Another vote for "it depends on the name and the culture".

I would think it a bit weird if an English couple used the Irish names Aoife or Niamh, but wouldn't judge. However, the name Saoirse is the Irish word for freedom and has come to be associated with the quest for Irish independence especially in NI (for obvious reasons). I would raise an eyebrow at an English couple with no Irish connections using Saoirse.

Similarly, pronunciation matters. Most British accents do very different things to the letter R than most Irish accents. Using the name Orla but pronouncing it "Aw-la" or "Or-ler" would grate.

But that's such an odd response to be unconvinced by something that you haven't experienced.

I think the PP meant unconvinced by your argument- because it wasn't clear how harm was being caused.

I'm not Jewish so it's not for me to say how someone Jewish should feel in a given situation or how someone trans should feel or anyone who has suffered prejudice or discrimination. I can't say you I don't believe how you feel!

Who has said they don't believe how others feel? I'm not really sure what this has to do with adopting foreign names being bad?

Honestly we all need to ignore this stuff and see it for the divisive crap it is (which most sensible people do, I think). It all came out of postmodernism in academia, and has infiltrated popular culture to an alarming degree in the last 10 years.

What’s strange is that if you look back just a few decades, the postmodernists were all saying that the introduction of new cultures into the West and our adoption of new cultural practices, customs and food etc. is a very good thing that “enriches” us. But in the 90s that changed and this “cultural appropriation” idea came about as a way of “proving” that eating, drinking, dressing, speaking or adopting language outside our own culture means that we are all a bunch of culturally insensitive racists. But this is just an idea, just a bunch of made-up stuff, designed to be deeply divisive, and we don’t have to believe it. It really just goes to show how incredibly unhinged this way of thinking is, particularly in a diverse, multicultural society.

When I was pregnant and we didn't know what sex our baby was, I had the name Seren on my list of possible names.
I am not Welsh, nor is DH and we have no connection to the country. However we wanted to have meaningful names and that was one that ticked the right boxes for us.

Broadly speaking, a name is just a name, but I would probably wonder a little if a white British-born parent named their child something like Mohammad or Vikram.

However, the name Saoirse is the Irish word for freedom and has come to be associated with the quest for Irish independence especially in NI (for obvious reasons). I would raise an eyebrow at an English couple with no Irish connections using Saoirse

I would presume they had no idea of the political connotations and chose it as a pretty name with a nice meaning (which it is).

It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. We don’t own cultural associations with words any more than we own words.

Laurie have a look at www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/pregnancy/expecting/109838627/mia-and-aria-are-the-most-popular-mori-baby-names-of-2018

19:25doadeer

Just curious... All those dismissing cultural appropriation or saying it's a load of rubbish - are you white?

Depends - do you call southern Irish people white, in this context?

doadeer - out of interest, how would your DH feel if you appropriated things from his culture? Wore traditional dress etc. Is it completely unacceptable for you to appropriate any aspect of his culture? Because if you are white, then I guess it should be. Does that cause issues?

He would want me to understand the significance of something I wore if it was important culturally.

He would think it's important I understand about aspects of his culture also so I can help explain to our son.

It's not about saying you can't wear a dress from a particular culture or eat a food it's about understanding that people may have faced discrimination for these things and that they aren't just fashion statements. If DH wore some traditional clothing to work he would be ridiculed....if a cool kid from Shoreditch wore a shirt in a traditional print he would be seen as super edgy. It isn't to say he can't wear that shirt it's that he should know where it's come from and if he saw instances of discrimination he should challenge them as he is benefiting from that culture.

I dont know how else I can explain it.

I would presume they had no idea of the political connotations and chose it as a pretty name with a nice meaning (which it is).

... Yes. But. I suppose my point is that if you're going to use a name from another culture, you should do a cursory Google into its meaning. If it's used to represent the struggle of that culture against your culture, maybe it's not the most suitable choice and it might be time to go back to the drawing board.

JillyHilly that's an incredibly black and white way of viewing this which doesn't take into consideration experiences other than your own. No-one is saying that "eating, drinking or speaking another language" is cultural appropriation. Obviously not, as that would be ridiculous. You're just being deliberately obtuse or inflammatory.

OP, if you're still there, it would be interesting to know the name and the culture it originates from in order to understand more. The woman who spoke to you was obviously upset. She may not have had any reason to be, or there may be some validity to her argument. I wonder if you have stopped to think about her experiences and whether, thinking objectively, there might be any rationale to her reaction? But we will never know without knowing the name.

Laurie have a look at www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/pregnancy/expecting/109838627/mia-and-aria-are-the-most-popular-mori-baby-names-of-2018

My best friend is from OZ. Her DM is German, DF Polish.

Consequently, most of her relatives live in Germany/Poland.

She mentioned to me that it was odd that most of her relatives in Germany seem to be giving their DS Anglo names.

I pointed out that her DD has a French name. She doesn't think that's odd.

If DH wore some traditional clothing to work he would be ridiculed....if a cool kid from Shoreditch wore a shirt in a traditional print he would be seen as super edgy.

That’s just old fashioned racism though.

And not actually the fault of the cool kid from Shoreditch. Him not wearing it does precisely nothing to tackle the racism your DH is facing.

We should be tackling the former, not tying ourselves up in knots about the latter.

Very interesting space and covers a lot of the complexity going on here.

There are two Arias in my son’s class. I’m blaming Game of Thrones though

*So upset OP has abandoned us.

Am imagining a blonde woman somewhere in deepest middle England tucking little Kwame Machupa into bed.*

As per, the people who have come from the majority don't understand and go to extremes, "I can't call my daughter Chloe."

If it's used to represent the struggle of that culture against your culture, maybe it's not the most suitable choice and it might be time to go back to the drawing board.

If those connotations aren’t widely known where the child is growing up, then I don’t see an issue.

Saoirse, for example, is much more politicised in NI than even Dublin and surrounds. In NI it is most definitely a political choice. In ROI, not so much.

Yes I understand it's racism! But unfortunately that's what he faces every day. And we do everything we can to tackle it.... I'm doing my best on this thread to explain why people might be upset by cultural appropriation as a form of racism.

I didn't say it was the kids fault wearing the shirt I said he should understand the shirt he wears and be an ally to the culture it comes from. As a white person I see that as the best way to end racism. It's amazing what ignorant things people will say to you as if they assume because you are also white you will hold prejudice views. I do my best to challenge these whenever I encounter them.

Haven’t RTFT, has OP done the big reveal yet?

Small town in Scotland 50 years ago.
Dad to daughter "I see you've written your name on the bus shelter, get over there and clean it off" (er, yes, very different times).
"No daddy, not me, I didnt"
"You did, I can tell"
"I didn't "
"It wasn't me, it wasn't your mum, Saoirse, and it's only the 3 of us who can spell your name correctly, so off you go"
Child slopes off carrying Vim.

Laurie I'll confess to being a bit of an 'anorak' about linguistics and the etymology of words.

I dare you to walk up to her in the school playground, tell her you heard she was talking about your name choice and ask her what exactly she thinks you should do, now that your kid is of school age. Is she suggesting you change her name?

If she says no, then tell her to shove her opinion and stop talking about your kid.