To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

@MikeUniformMike Amaia is actually a Basque name. Not a ‘Welshified’ version of an Arabic name.

In fact ... isn’t that a perfect example of what arguing about this stuff is pointless? It’s a minefied. Pick a name you like and go with it !

Blimey. I a British 42 year old and have a “foreign” name. And so does my child. My parents chose my name because they liked it and I chose my child’s name because I liked it.

Wouldn't it be nice if people would give others the benefit of the doubt?

But what would guardian columnists write about?

Aren't all names made up, @MikeUniformMike?

And just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Even people saying Rhian can add a 'na' or 'ner' sound to the end of it, depending upon their accent. Or look at Rhiannon/Rhiannan.

Like Joanne can be pronounced perfectly reasonably as Jo Ann, Joann, Joanna, Joan-ner (and Yoanna, Ioanna, Johanna, etc, etc - the differences in spelling reflect differences in pronunciation/accent/where it was appropriated to or from once upon a time)

Can any supporter of the cultural appropriation theory explain this? What harm does it do?

I'm not a "supporter" but I believe it exists so I'll take a stab at answering your question: why is it damaging at society level?

It's whitewashing people's experiences, beliefs and elements of their person. By taking something that people have been ridiculed or abused for and giving it the stamp of approval without acknowleding the history/tradition of it... This is damaging because it erases people's experiences and it's fundamentally unfair.

For many years (and still continues today) women have been put down by men. Had their ideas stolen and been silenced. If we don't acknowledge this we do women a huge disservice and men never learn that this is not acceptable. A similar case could be made for cultural appropriation. Many hairstyles in African tribes were/are deeply symbolic and emotive. If a woman with a "traditional" hair style went to a job interview and was rejected because they believed she didn't match their "culture fit" as she didn't look professional enough. Then next thing you know all the girls are adopting this hair style without knowing anything about what it means.... We've done a gross injustice to this woman.

Cultural appropriation is about not cherry picking the bits we like from different cultures without acknowledging that in some cases these people have faced advertisty in being accepted into British culture because of this thing. We should celebrate other cultures yes of course! But we must also be respectful.

Others may present a different view on why it's damaging - I've just picked a couple of examples. It's an enormous topic.

Is anyone else having a little fantasy of Idris Elba starring in a biopic of Tom Jones?

Fucks sake OP, tell us the name. Or are you too busy writing your article?

What on earth does she expect you to do?

Rename your child?

After decades of encouraging integration, embracing other cultures and becoming a melting pot society (which I love, incidentally) are we now starting to re-segregate society with the suggestion that to embrace something from another culture is “cultural appropriation”?

I think the reality is nowadays that, save for obvious extremes, there is no consensus on what is offensive or not.

My friends gave their daughter a Maori middle name when she was born in New Zealand. She is white, and their only connection was that they worked there for two years. It felt a bit weird, but I didn't say anything because the child already has that name. What are you gonna do?!

tell her to stop speaking your language

Footiefan2019, I didn't say Amaia was a welshified name. I said Amaya would be difficult to pronounce and that you could write it as Amaia to make it seem welsh.

It's a pretty name, in Arabic or Basque, or whichever language.

Haven’t RTFT. I’m sorry that you are experiencing this, it’s very awkward. But for gods sake call your kid anything that you want, assuming it’s not going to get them teased.

We all need to push back against this postmodern crap. The “cultural appropriation accusation is just a way of shutting people down, of making them feel as if they’ve transgressed some invisible thought police line that they didn’t know existed. Its a way of controlling language and behaviour, and it’s total nonsense.

Nobody “owns” a culture. Cultures are alive, dynamic and changing , and they are meant to borrow from each other. That’s the way it has always worked as long as different peoples rub up against each other. It is the way human beings work, so don’t let anyone tell you otherwise - especially the predictably sanctimonious ones.

Why don't parents look at the spellings of the name for when kids get older.
AOIFE will end up as OiFee, Fee or Oif, take your pick.

Did you call her Parmesan?

@MikeUniformMike sorry yes I know it was a suggestion but You have to admit it is a good example of illustrating how you can’t always ‘claim’ a name to a country or culture, there’s always something !

Did you call her Parmesan?

Quite literally a 'culture'

@cheesydoesit

My friends gave their daughter a Maori middle name when she was born in New Zealand

The thing is there aren't a massive number of NZ names that are unique to the country which aren't Maori names so if they wanted an NZ name then they didn't really have a lot of choice. If you look at the top NZ names overall there is only one girl's name which is described as Maori (Mia, which most wouldn't say was a Maori name) - it's very different to the top 10 list of Maori names.

www.morefm.co.nz/home/trending/2019/01/most-popular-baby-names-for-new-zealanders-in-2018.html

The NZ government and companies do use Maori words in every day English, for example whanua (family) is frequently used in hospitals when they have notices/documents about families visiting - they will refer to your extended family or whanua in an otherwise English document. If the government are incorporating a few Maori words into every day English then it's more acceptable for Maori names being used by white people - at least as far as white people are concerned.

Maybe the kid's called Penicillin?

I have a Greek first name and a French middle name.

I’m 100% British, and my names are as bog-standard Seventies as they come.

The woman is being a ridiculous arse.

Thanks Doadeer, I do appreciate your answer. I have to say I remain unconvinced.

This is damaging because it erases people's experiences and it's fundamentally unfair.

Then next thing you know all the girls are adopting this hair style without knowing anything about what it means.... We've done a gross injustice to this woman.

In the two examples it's not clear to me why it is unfair or what injustice has is fact been done. In other words what loss has been suffered in either case?

Speaking as a person of colour, I don't accept that cultural appropriation is a thing. My dad is Jamaican, my mother Italian and my step-dad is white British. I am very light skinned and used to have my hair in beaded plaits - for which I was accused of cultural appropriation. If I dye my hair blonde, is that cultural appropriation? What if I straighten it? It's totally nuts.

Incidentally, my given name is Clytemnestra and I confess (you heard it here first) that I am not Ancient Greek.

Absurd grandstanding by complainant. It would be almost impossible to attribute nationality to most European names, they drop in and out of favour internationally. Maybe not so much with names from further afield but no reason why they won't become so. What used to be a compliment to another culture has now morphed into something insulting? Why?

But that's such an odd response to be unconvinced by something that you haven't experienced.

I'm not Jewish so it's not for me to say how someone Jewish should feel in a given situation or how someone trans should feel or anyone who has suffered prejudice or discrimination. I can't say you I don't believe how you feel!

My friends gave their daughter a Maori middle name when she was born in New Zealand

I don’t see anything wrong with that. Presumably nothing about the act or how they treat the name itself is disrespectful. I imagine they chose it to positively represent her connection with NZ.

And just to note, 4 of the top 10 Maori girls names in the list posted above are represented in my son’s Dublin primary school. I doubt anyone here would identify them as names associated with Maori culture.