Immigration comment from colleague, AIBU

[user2726182]

Name changed.

Myself and a couple of colleagues were talking about the upcoming general election, just about the debates that were on television last week.
Colleague stated she was voting conservatives because she wants brexit (fair enough) but then went on to say it's because of immigration and doesn't want anymore people coming in to the UK because we're a 'small island' and can't home any more people, she went on to say refugees are fine but that's it, then said 'I'm not racist' but just my opinion.

Now my grandparents were immigrants and I wouldn't be here without them coming from Asia, I was a bit offended by her comments.

Aibu?

All you can do is try to educate

Use it as an opportunity to educate her

About what exactly?

Educate. Like certain dictatorships used to 'educate' those who stepped out of the approved line of thinking?

My thoughts exactly, you just put it better than me!

Re the coming here for free healthcare.
If anything it's the other way around.
I don't think you all realise how many immigrants are flying back to their EU countries to visit their doctors rather than wait on NHS...
I used to too.

I've stopped being surprised bymeeting people who immigrated here, who think immigration should bite be restricted. The wish to pull up the drawbridge behind them because they're alright Jack, is somewhat disturbing.

There are seven and a half million people in Hong Kong.

If every one of them wanted to come to the UK tomorrow, would posters advocating a total 'Open Borders' policy be happy with that?

If so, do you think that that number of people would have a negative impact on the infrastructure of the country?

If you did, would you be racist to point out that they cannot all be accommodated?

If, as most people would, you would say there would have to some form of control, then you do not support an open border policy and nor are you racist against the Hong Kong population.

However, if you feel all seven and a half million should come because you really, really believe in open borders then I think I would have to conclude that you are either very young, very hard of thinking or a person whose belief in an ideology overrides all practical considerations, without any care for the lifestyle of your fellow citizens.

It is not racist to want controlled borders, unless you only control those borders for a particular race. It is really not that hard to get your head around if you put down your whistle and drum and just have a little think.

Havana

nobody defines overpopulation in terms of food sustainability.

Not the case. It is how many people define overpopulation. It is not the only definition which is why I specified which one I was using.

It also makes sense to control immigration in that context. (Me)
This makes no sense at all. (you)
It does if you care about the environmental impact of shipping food internationally. Carbon foot prints are not just for grins. It does if you care about the strategic implications in the event of military conflict or economic sanctions or hyperinflation/economic crises. Does rationing not ring a bell?

Population density across the UK differs greatly.

Population density always varies within a country, which is why it is measured as countrywide. Did you know, for example, that China’s population density is almost half that of the U.K.? And yet no one would argue that China should have less strict immigration laws. (Theirs are stricter than the UKs)

Educate. Like certain dictatorships used to 'educate' those who stepped out of the approved line of thinking?

Educate - as in offering factual evidence to illustrate that an opinion is not necessarily backed by the available evidence. As in:

They came here and worked straight away, didn't claim benefits or take up social housing. They pay into the system. Most immigrants now do not - Opinion

EU migrants are more likely to be in work than natives, with the participation rate for the group at just below 80 per cent, refuting the idea that most immigrants do not "contribute". - Fact

@Havanananana going by the OP the colleague has a very valid political view.

Certain people need to stop believing that they can force others into their line of thinking by beating them with an education stick.

Wanting to restrict immigration is a perfectly fine viewpoint.

It doesn't need to be forced or coercion.

She can think what she's wants and she's right, control of borders is a good idea.

If she's suggesting no cross border movement at all she clearly doesn't know what she's taking about

YABU

Lots of first generation immigrants from the 1960s and 1970s actually agree that there has been too much immigration in recent years and those immigrants haven't integrated the way they did

She's also entitled to her opinion.

She isn't being racist - she presumably wasn't against any particular race of peoples immigrating but the numbers of immigrants in general. It's a valid concern when you can't get a house / doctors appointment / kids into school because immigration has outstripped ability of services to keep up.

Havana- Being in work or not is only one factor as to whether a person is a net contributor. Just because you are economically active, that doesn’t mean you are paying into the system as a net contributor. Most low wage earners are net beneficiaries, not net contributors. So actually both the statements labelled opinion and fact can factually correct. Especially today with zero hour contracts and the gig economy.

And you’d expect immigrants to have a higher economic participation rate because you have to either have a job to live in the U.K. or get one within a few months and keep a job continuously. Also many immigrants do not bring their extended families and so you have a higher % of British “natives” who are economically inactive people (ie retired, disabled, students). The comparison of % immigrant to % native being economically active is not apples to apples.

@Contraceptionismyfriend

The OP said that her colleague voted for Brexit because she wanted to stop immigration into the UK. That is her (the colleague's) viewpoint, based on information that she has read, heard and digested.

We don't know her reasons for holding this opinion, but there are numerous posters who have supported her view and given their reasons, including the example that I've quoted about immigrants 'not contributing' - to which I've provided evidence to the contrary.

I'm not trying to force or coerce people to agree with me. How else should political issues be discussed and decided - through informed debate, or by those able to control the media and those willing to tell the biggest lies in order to influence public opinion?

Leaving the EU will have an affect on immigration. So her views could be valid. We are hearing them third hand.

The UK population has risen by nearly 5 million since the Conservatives came to power ( over about 10 years) . In the previous 10 years it rose by about 4 million. So it has been slowly and steadily rising over the last 20 years.

Ok, so my use of the word 'educate' was clumsy. What I meant was that it's a much more complex matter than, "we're a small island and we can't accommodate any more".

Fact is, without inward migration, you wouldn't be able to accommodate the people you already have.

I have no idea who's going to care for my mum and my MIL in their care homes, if only the most highly educated immigrants are allowed in.

We rely on a hell of a lot of immigrant care and factory workers., doing the jobs that white Brits don't want to do.

YABU. Just because she wants controls on immigration doesn't mean she is racist.

I have no idea who's going to care for my mum and my MIL in their care homes, if only the most highly educated immigrants are allowed in.

We rely on a hell of a lot of immigrant care and factory workers., doing the jobs that white Brits don't want to do.

Saraclara, there are means and ways to control immigration to fulfil the needs you need it to fulfil, whether it is astrophysicists you want or care assistants. The key word here is CONTROL over immigration. Obviously, it is not going to stop, as the majority of the world has much lower standard of living than UK citizens, but at least the country will be able to exercise a choice of who it lets in and how many.

I shudder at the thought that people are encouraging the OP to report the colleague to HR because she has different opinions on immigration.

YABU. It’s interesting that lots here have used Australia as an example of how immigration should be done but we actually have a really high rate of immigration here. The problems the numbers are causing are exacerbated by the fact that most new arrivals want to live in two cities, Melbourne and Sydney. These two cities are struggling with the numbers and the unfettered march of the suburbs is destroying habitat for wildlife and some of our most arable land.

If being concerned about that makes me racist then so be it. I also think we should take more refugees and our offshore detention system is a national shame.

TitusOatesLivesNextDoor Very well put.

I live in a city where there are a lot of people who sponser elderly relatives to come from abroad. These immigrants don't have recourse to public funds but do seem to be eligible for free healthcare. In the course of my work I've met a few recently who have had very complex cancer surgery on the NHS within a year of arriving here. I'm not sure whether their relatives who sponser them pay some kind of health insurance payment for them and obviously they do need the cancer treatment. I don't really have any opinions on it except that it does happen - quite frequently where I live.

FGS, she may well be racist but her comments alone dont necessarily confirm that she is. I note that she had no objections to refugees being admitted. As a person whose parents immigrated from the Caribbean, I understand her point of view although I don’t necessarily endorse it. And to the PP who suggested that immigrants who disagree with unlimited immigration are somehow “pulling up the drawbridge “, that’s nonsense. When my parents came over in the 60s, there was a desperate need for skilled and unskilled workers to rebuild the country. This is no longer the case (not to the same degree, anyway) so of course it’s ok to take a different stance. This emerging tendency to adopt binary positions is so tiring.

@Melanin5 I'm talking about people who've been here two/three years max. My recent work brings me into contact with people who have had immigration difficulties. I support them and they're lovely and very hard working and determined. But it tends to make me go 'ouch' when having been helped to stay here, a few then go on about supporting Brexit to reduce immigration, and foreigners playing the system!

Don't get me wrong, I love what I do. But it is something that happens.

@havingtochangeusernameagain, the Africans that I've known, have picked the UK because of the NHS. A lot of the women have babies to English men and get to stay. That lifts the 'no recourse to public funds'.

Most people such as your colleague fail to see that immigration isn't going to stop. The Conservatives are going to welcome immigrats from Africa/India/Bangladesh etc. It will lower wages and you'll have a good proportion of workers who are happy with low living standards (by our standards).

Nowhere have they said the numbers will be less, they'll just come from third world countries.

There are societies were fraud etc are an acceptable way to live. Women have no rights, disabilities are not believed in, magic is still believed in etc and it isn't racist to say that mass immigration from those countries, is worrying.