Immigration comment from colleague, AIBU

[user2726182]

Name changed.

Myself and a couple of colleagues were talking about the upcoming general election, just about the debates that were on television last week.
Colleague stated she was voting conservatives because she wants brexit (fair enough) but then went on to say it's because of immigration and doesn't want anymore people coming in to the UK because we're a 'small island' and can't home any more people, she went on to say refugees are fine but that's it, then said 'I'm not racist' but just my opinion.

Now my grandparents were immigrants and I wouldn't be here without them coming from Asia, I was a bit offended by her comments.

Aibu?

I was an emigre to the U.K. for a few years but am now back in my EU home country. This statement about the U.K. island being small and overpopulated is a scientific fact if you define over population as not being able to sustain the U.K. population with food from only made in the U.K. It also makes sense to control immigration in that context.

The population density in the U.K. is one of the highest in the EU (it’s Channel Islands Jersey and Guernsey and mainland all three are in top 10 for EU). The density is also almost 3x my country and the difference is noticeable.

Too, immigration control with a revolving door...one person in for every person out doesn’t mean no new people to emigrate in. Other countries do have stricter controls on immigration for similar reasons. China and Japan are more strict. So this is not about race.

IF you believe that the country is like a bus, with all of the seats taken and lots of people standing in the aisle, then it isn't racist to declare your opinion that nobody else can get on as it's full.

Racist would be to tell all black and Asian people that the bus is full but letting on the white people, telling them "We can all squeeze up a bit more for you."

It's interesting how those who voted for Brexit have been widely condemned as racist for wanting to remove bilateral rights from other countries with majority white populations; yet when many of those same Brexit voters state a preference for us to concentrate more on strengthening our Commonwealth links, which includes the Indian sub-continent and a third of Africa, the same racist-hunters remain strangely silent.

I disagree with her, and I realise that many racist people share her views.

Nevertheless, it isn’t racist to oppose immigration. In addition, she’s suggested that she opposes it now owing to the size of the population, implying that she has no problem with immigrants who are already settled here.

Her comments wouldn’t endear her to me, but it’s unreasonable to assume that she’s racist.

I'm from a family of political refugees from a non-commonwealth country.

To me, the concept of open borders is quite frankly insane. It means open borders for trans-national crime syndicates, sex traffickers, arms deals, drug runners and criminals on the run.

Once you get a foreign national crime organisation operating on your soil, it's very hard to root them out. A lot of policing depends on a level of community surveillance and institutional awareness; in short, people know who other people are and what is going on around them. With this kind of situation, criminals can operate entirely under the radar shielded by a disapora that has no relationship with national police at all.

Misha Glenny wrote a very good book about the situation back in the noughties. It's eye opening.

*'I'm not racist'...

This is always, always followed by "but" and then a clear demonstration that the person saying it is racist.*

I disagree with this. I'm black and I live in a massively predominantly white area. I think some people are conditioned to believe that any comments on immigration or culture might come across as racist. I don't immediately jump to "you're racist" if someone says that.

OP, I don't think YABU to be a bit offended. It would spike my spidey senses but at the same time, what she said wasn't racist in my opinion.

would spike my spidey senses

Good way of saying that. I thought similar but did not have the words.

packingsoapandwater do you have the title of that book? It sounds good!

Oh is it McMafia packing?

Plan, your post was far more articulate than mine!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll I love your comment re Brexit because I often think the same. It's what I call the vegetarian argument....Racists are Brexiteers therefore all Brexiteers are racist and Hitler was vegetarian so are all vegetarians nazi? My Mum is from the Dominican Republic and she voted Leave so although I voted Remain, I don't jump to 'racist' with that either.

@PlanDeRaccordement

This statement about the U.K. island being small and overpopulated is a scientific fact if you define over population as not being able to sustain the U.K. population with food from only made in the U.K.

In which case the UK has been overpopulated for at least the last 200 years. However due to international trade, nobody defines overpopulation in terms of food sustainability. The UK exports goods and services and uses the money earned to import food - that way most people get to eat.

It also makes sense to control immigration in that context.
This makes no sense at all. If the UK were to only have a population that could be fed by UK-produced food, the population would need to fall to less than half of the current level.

Population density across the UK differs greatly. England is highly densely populated and ranks near the top of EU countries, as does the UK taken as a whole, but Wales and especially Scotland rank amongst the lowest. (The Channel Islands are not in the EU - they are not even part of the UK).

Today 14:52 Patroclus

Look forward to seeing you all in the fields picking that fruit thats rotting on the vine. Dig for victory and all that shite.

This is exactly WHY you need controlled migration. You control immigrants, not immigrants control you. And I say this as an immigrant!

YABU, it is simply her opinion.

You control immigrants, not immigrants control you.

The majority of immigration to the UK is controlled. Last year net immigration from non-EU countries was over 260,000 - all controlled by a points system (or rather, a tiered visa system). By contrast net immigration from the EU was around 60,000. The UK could have controlled EU immigration too, but is one of the few EU countries that does not require EU citizens to register, show that they can support themselves and leave after 3 months if they cannot.

Brexit will not alter the amount of immigration to the UK. The make-up might change, with fewer EU citizens arriving to replace those that are now leaving in large numbers - including the 11,000 NHS staff who have left since the referendum.

Use it as an opportunity to educate her. Point out not only your own origins but the fact that the NHS and many other essential services, particularly in the care sector, would collapse with immigrants. Point out that Brexit won't stop immigration because, amongst other matters, we have obligations to people from the former colonies.

Also ask her whether she really wants to be governed by the party that has almost doubled the national debt, and run most services, including the NHS into the ground, and which is led by a lying, incompetent bigot.

I'm sorry but I agree with her and I don't think she is being racist. She didn't say anything about race or what countries people were coming from. She was stating facts that she doesn't want unlimited immigration into this country because it can't take it.
I live in the Midlands in an area with a lot of people whose elders came here from Pakistan. I grew up with them and alot are my friends. They also say exactly the same thing, immigration should be stricter. They came here and worked straight away, didn't claim benefits or take up social housing. They pay into the system. Most immigrants now do not and that is why people feel so negatively towards them

What's your evidence for the claim that most immigrants don't pay into the system, @Snugglemonster? And have you checked that against the figures for UK citizens who don't pay into the system?

Why is she racist? She said that she didn’t think there was space for any more people, regardless of race.

YANBU to feel offended, but I don't think colleague was being racist, or saying anything that bad.

Sounds like she was just voicing her opinion. I have met a lot of people who feel the NHS, education and other public resources are under huge strain. Some of these people think that the reason is because our population is too big to cope with the resources we have and that one solution is to reduce immigration. I honestly don't think that is racist.

Maybe ask your colleague a bit more about her views, what is driving them, and if you disagree, offer some other perspectives and she may even change her mind (or you might!) Or you'll at least understand her a bit better and be able to better empathise.

Agree with last comment. All you can do is try to educate.

I don't think it's cause for 'offence', however, and I say this as an EU national living in the UK. I understand that many people feel that the rate of migration to the UK is too high. I find it somewhat anomalous when one considers the reliance of many industries and services on immigrants, but here we are.

I think since Brexit, some of the narrative has become very unpleasant and that has probably made you a little more reactive to this remark, which is totally understandable.

Agree with last comment. All you can do is try to educate.

Use it as an opportunity to educate her.

What's to say she isn't educated on the subject? Just because someone disagrees with your opinion doesn't mean they need educating, that's pretty patronising to be fair.

They came here and worked straight away, didn't claim benefits or take up social housing. They pay into the system. Most immigrants now do not and that is why people feel so negatively towards them

Do you have figures to support this, because evidence suggest otherwise:
EU migrants are more likely to be in work than natives, with the participation rate for the group at just below 80 per cent, refuting the idea that most immigrants do not "contribute".

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/immigration-uk-economy-what-are-the-benefits-stats-theresa-may-amber-rudd-tory-conference-speeches-a7346121.html

I honestly think this country should close the borders and only allow in educated individuals or ones with a trade like Australia.

I don't agree with that. Even low skilled workforce can be VERY beneficial. I was one😁 Then I ended up creating number of jobs. So far 15 and counting.

However! I don't agree with open border too and think that there absolutely should be criminal checks and work permits issued after it for people who want to live here.
Not everyone deserves the benefit of free movement.

And no. I don't think she is racist. Misinformed in some things, but not a racist

This kind of attitude towards the debate really does no one any favours. In fact if we'd had a sensible rational debate instead of crying racists to anyone with a differing view on immigration we'd more than likely not be leaving the EU in a couple of months

Totally agree. I voted remain and am in favour of FOM. But I understand there are some problems with it and people should be able to say there are problems so that something gets done about them, like investment in infrastructure.

Quite a lot of immigrants would like to draw up the drawbridges behind them too.

euuuugh here come the 'sensible discussion to be had' people

Because we DO need a sensible discussion. We can't keep building more and more houses on green field sites, and letting the population increase more and more without discussing how we deal with those issues as a country.

A lot of people do come here for benefits and free healthcare alone No they don't.

Educate. Like certain dictatorships used to 'educate' those who stepped out of the approved line of thinking?

They came here and worked straight away, didn't claim benefits or take up social housing. They pay into the system. Most immigrants now do not and that is why people feel so negatively towards them

Is this the free houses and myriad of benefits on arrival thing?
Still pissed off no one told me... Had to pay rent like... Oh yeah. Anyone else.

Not only are we more likely to be in work, we are also net contributors AND google habitual residency test. You don't JUST get a house and benefits. You must work (unless you know how to play it, and any nationality has few of these pricks)