to put rules in place for employee with second job?

[Figamol]

Very long story short!

After 3 traumatic years in the state system, we pulled the money (and blood and limbs) together to put our special needs child in a private school with a one on one funded by us. We found a great girl and its going so well - one of the main reasons we hired her was because she insisted it would be her only job, which was great for our child as it meant she had the flexibility to adapt to his changing needs and we had the possibility to give her extra hours if he was having a bad day or school outing etc..

I coached another parent at the school who now also needs a one on one on how we found her, what we put in place and offered to help her.
Turns out the parent then approached our own one on one to do some hours with her child.

I'm very protective over what we have now managed to put in place. But there's not much we can do about that as of course she can accept more hours outside of her contract with us if she wants. But as our contract hours will be more than double than the child she takes on - practically we want to make sure things run smoothly and there are no blurred lines. Putting in place support isn't an exact science and needs can change at any given moment for any reason and joint supervision would not work (different ages/needs etc) She has assured us our own child is the priority so I'd love feedback on the following ideas:

Law dictates breaks - if her other hours mean the total working day changes the breaks required - these additional breaks will not happen during the hours contracted to us.
No preparation for, conversations about, emails or meetings will happen about the other child during the hours contracted to us.
There will be no interaction (as much as possible)/joint supervision of the other child during hours contracted to us.
If there are special events/trips - she must make herself available for for our child.
We reserve the right to change her hours to fit our child's needs.
At the start of the school year, she must not fix her hours for other children until our child's need have been defined. This could take up to 4 weeks.
She should also be available for more hours during the 'Back to school' phase until he is settled (this often means full days in the beginning.)

I also wanted to know what happens legally if she is injured during her other contract time? What rights do we have to protect our own child's needs during that time.

Thanks in advance to those who might be able to give input into what is/isn't reasonable.

Sorry your dc had a hard time.

But you don't own this woman. She's Not your slave. You speak about her like chattel.

Have a think about her rights

You're acting in an extremely possessive way about this woman.

The best way to ensure that your child's needs continue to be met is to maintain a good relationship with this woman. Treating her like a slave is not going to do that.

I'm not sure she could agree to that and keep a second job. Surely the other child will also need set hours (so less flexibility for you). You can suggest that to her (and be aware the no contact/work for other child would also apply to your child out of your hours) but she doesn't need to accept them. Could you find alternative help if necessary? Or pay her more to keep her solely for your child?

I cannot imagine anyone staying in your employment under rules like that. I think you'd be almost guaranteeing that you need to find a new support worker if you suggest them.

The terms you are suggesting are onerous and I would suggest she may choose to back out completely should you put them to her.

The time to agree a contract is at the point of employment. not afterwards.

Hiw can you ask her to do that unless you can guarantee her full time pay?

What would you expect if she were injured for any reason outside the hours she is caring for your child?

Thanks for the feedback - like I said it has been an awful few years and I guess I am just feeling destabilized by another change when we weren't expecting one.

Please don't be too harsh - I know I dont own this lovely girl - Im just trying to figure stuff out and really would just love some constructive ideas to smooth the way.

Are there any that are reasonable?

If you laid all that on me like you think I'm some sort of serf, I would immediately start making plans to leave, even if I agreed overtly. I'd also meet my commitments to my job and no more. I'd not go out of my way for you in the slightest.

If you have concerns, engage in discussion with her as an adult and equal partner. Assume she wants to do a good job for you and ask what challenges she might anticipate and how she proposes you all might handle them.

What they said, plus YABU for referring to her as a girl. She's presumably a grown woman with qualifications, training and experience.

I also agree with the previous poster. You might not be doing it intentionally but you are chastising her for being offered a role with another child. They are guaranteed hours which your role does not give her, she can’t (and shouldn’t) keep herself free just in case you want to schedule more work for her.

FWIW I work in exactly the same role that you are describing and I wouldn’t be happy with my employers assuming I was at their beck and call, nor would I be happy with all of these rules brought in. If you want her to continue working for you/working for you and you value her, then take a different approach.

No you can't "reserve the rights to change her hours". She is entitled to be available for fixed hours and that's it! She does not have to make herself available for whatever hours you want.
I wouldn't like to work for you.

Some of your points are reasonable, but if you want to reserve the right to change her hours to fit your child’s needs, then I’d expect you to pay her a full salary to have her on retainer, rather than 0 hours at your whim. Likewise prioritising your child and making her wait for up to 4 weeks.
Ask her for her time exclusively, and pay her accordingly. Otherwise you are exploiting and controlling her without consideration.

I’ve answered each point individually:

Law dictates breaks - if her other hours mean the total working day changes the breaks required - these additional breaks will not happen during the hours contracted to us. - this is fair enough and shouldn’t need to be said as this happens for all people with a second job; if your hours with you don’t entitle her to a break then she doesn’t get one.

No preparation for, conversations about, emails or meetings will happen about the other child during the hours contracted to us. - also fair enough, but could be worded a little ‘nicer’, she shouldn’t be doing anything but her job when she’s working, not just the other child’s meetings.

There will be no interaction (as much as possible)/joint supervision of the other child during hours contracted to us. - I’d remove the interaction part and go for just no joint supervision, she should be allowed to say hello etc.

If there are special events/trips - she must make herself available for for our child. - on dodgy ground here, extra hours are her choice surely?

We reserve the right to change her hours to fit our child's needs. - also dodgy ground, although you could add flexibility is needed, then after 2 years when she has employment rights it will help you end the work if it’s not going ok?

At the start of the school year, she must not fix her hours for other children until our child's need have been defined. This could take up to 4 weeks. - again you can’t force her to do this.

She should also be available for more hours during the 'Back to school' phase until he is settled (this often means full days in the beginning.) - you can’t ask to reserve hours like this unless you’re paying for them, make full days with pay part of her contract at start of year whether you need them or not and pay her for them?

I would be annoyed that she has taken on the other work after saying she wouldn’t, but those terms are too onerous.

I’m not sure what you mean by this:

I also wanted to know what happens legally if she is injured during her other contract time? What rights do we have to protect our own child's needs during that time.

Surely the same as if she’s injured at any other time she doesn’t work for you?

How will you feel if she resigns because of your ridiculous rules?

My employment contract requires me to obtain my employer 's approval for any second jobs. It also places restrictions on additional employment similar to those you describe - e.g. No work for second job in my employer's time and I couldn't work for anyone in competition with my employer.

Speak to ACAS. They can give you advice on how to deal with this.

Also, presumably she is accepting extra work because she needs the money and you're either not paying enough or not guaranteeing the hours every week.

She’s not a girl. She’s a woman. And your demands are OTT. Careful, you’ll lose her to a more reasonable employer.

Your child’s needs are your priority, but that doesn’t give you the right to act like an abusive arse to a fellow human being.

I know that this must be disappointing for you . However most of those rules that you’ve mentioned are making you come across as very petty,possessive , awkward and almost spiteful in fact . It was a little bit sneaky of the other parent to try to poach your dc’s carer especially after you helped her.
I think it’s reasonable to request that when looking after your dc, that the carer doesn’t spend any time dealing with email, phone calls relating to the other child.
I have a feeling that this is not going to end well as I think it’s going to lead to resentment on your part.

What are the terms of the contract you have with her? Changes to those terms could lead to a claim for constructive dismissal ... www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/rights-at-work/basic-rights-and-contracts/changes-to-employment-contracts-overview/

If you want her to be available full time for your child, then that's what you need to pay for.

You can specify what she does during the hours she is working for you, but you definitely can't tell her what to do in the hours she isn't.

She's not a girl, she's a woman.

Is she employed during the school day or after school? I'm confused by your set up.

Yes - we would always pay to block her time at back to school time, thats a given.
But you're right, it's tough to think with a clear head sometimes - thank you all - I get that we have to fix hours and can only put in place what we can during those fixed hours. The rest we'll either have to find a second shadow or block more of her time.