to put rules in place for employee with second job?

[Figamol]

Very long story short!

After 3 traumatic years in the state system, we pulled the money (and blood and limbs) together to put our special needs child in a private school with a one on one funded by us. We found a great girl and its going so well - one of the main reasons we hired her was because she insisted it would be her only job, which was great for our child as it meant she had the flexibility to adapt to his changing needs and we had the possibility to give her extra hours if he was having a bad day or school outing etc..

I coached another parent at the school who now also needs a one on one on how we found her, what we put in place and offered to help her.
Turns out the parent then approached our own one on one to do some hours with her child.

I'm very protective over what we have now managed to put in place. But there's not much we can do about that as of course she can accept more hours outside of her contract with us if she wants. But as our contract hours will be more than double than the child she takes on - practically we want to make sure things run smoothly and there are no blurred lines. Putting in place support isn't an exact science and needs can change at any given moment for any reason and joint supervision would not work (different ages/needs etc) She has assured us our own child is the priority so I'd love feedback on the following ideas:

Law dictates breaks - if her other hours mean the total working day changes the breaks required - these additional breaks will not happen during the hours contracted to us.
No preparation for, conversations about, emails or meetings will happen about the other child during the hours contracted to us.
There will be no interaction (as much as possible)/joint supervision of the other child during hours contracted to us.
If there are special events/trips - she must make herself available for for our child.
We reserve the right to change her hours to fit our child's needs.
At the start of the school year, she must not fix her hours for other children until our child's need have been defined. This could take up to 4 weeks.
She should also be available for more hours during the 'Back to school' phase until he is settled (this often means full days in the beginning.)

I also wanted to know what happens legally if she is injured during her other contract time? What rights do we have to protect our own child's needs during that time.

Thanks in advance to those who might be able to give input into what is/isn't reasonable.

Am I the only one, who, whilst neither a parent nor an SN parent can see exactly where the OP is coming from with that list.

Second Parent has massively CFd the OP, who has gone to great, extraordinary even lengths to source support to meet her child's needs

And she is foreseeing stuff that will ABSOLUTELY happen

"Lucy, I know you're with Johnny right now, but can I just borrow you, emergency with Will/can I just ask you about whether Wednesday is good?"

Distracting from Johnny

"Hi Miss Lucy, I did X Y Z today, when are you with ME, Miss Lucy, I Want to do X and Y And YESTERDAY Miss Alice said"

Distracting from Johnny

"Hey Lucy, are you OK to do the farm trip next week? I'm sorry Will's mother has already asked"

CFery when the whole point of Lucy was for Johnny, remembering she is paid for privately and is not a school resource.

Like I say not a parent, but experienced in this sort of caper in another area of life.

We employ her but we involved the school in the recruitment so they would be happy with who was in place.

Shouldn't the school take responsibility for supporting their pupils? It does seem a bit unprofessional for them to dump all the responsibility on you and the other Mum. It might be better if the school employed the carer/TA(s), you pay the school extra to support your DC, and you have a completely separate arrangement with the TA for out of school care. But I don't know if that's realistic given how your school have tackled things so far, maybe other people will more experience of private education for kids with SN will know.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay in private schools, I think, if you need extra support you have to organise it and certainly pay for it.

Second Parent has massively CFd the OP, who has gone to great, extraordinary even lengths to source support to meet her child's needs

I'm not convinced the other Mum was was being a CF because the TA does work with other children and it isn't clear what the TA's hours committed to the OP's DS really are. But I am starting to think that there might be an issue with the school here. It's not just the OP is funding the care, she is employing the TA herself. Why are these care arrangements in school all down to the parents? And are the school really letting the OP pay for time when her DS's TA is teaching other kids? How much time is that? Yes there has to be a bit of give and take but maybe the OP is just so grateful that her DS is doing OK that the school have started to take advantage.

Yes Amarylls I have to agree with you the school have taken the piss regarding the OPs private funding and allowed lines to be blurred here.

Thank god I don't work for you and if I did I'd be looking for another job asap

Hi OP,
Although you wish you could turn back the clock and not advise and help that parent you are where you are unfortunately and will have to share your TA - unless you can pay her an exclusive salary.

I just wanted to say that the suggestion of 2 TAs would be fine and good if you were setting up provision but if you start employing someone else and cutting your TAs hours now I'm sure she will think that the relationship with you is breaking down and move on pretty quickly.

Re the school trips I think if you want your TA to be available for school trips (changing her hours with the other child) then you will have to be willing to also allow changes to your hours when the other child has a trip. If you won't it's likely that the TA will end up having to say it's fixed hours and no changes for anyone which isn't the most helpful for either of you.

Hope it works out. Why not just go with it for now and deal with any situations as they arrive. Judging by how keen another parent was to employ your TA you may depend on her more than she depends on you so treat her like a professional and trust her judgement or else you will lose her to someone else that does.

If you want her to be exclusively and flexibly available for your dc you probably need to pay her as a full time employee. What you are suggesting sounds unmanageable of a pt ta in a school environment. Tbh it would be better if the school employed her to support both children but then you could not dictate use of her time as much.

OP as a fellow special needs Mum I get your anxiety having finally found a solution. However, your approach isn’t okay. If you want her available 8-6 you have to pay for that. You cannot change her hours and expect her to give up something else on a whim (even if for your dc’s needs). Pay up or she has every right to accept additional jobs and hours. Every right. And no, you can’t make her wait for 4 weeks every September to see what your needs are. Honestly OP. Don’t go down this route of ownership and entitlement, it won’t end well for anyone, especially your dc.

@Penelopeschat - thanks for your understanding. We were led to believe this is how it would run by the TA when she said she would only be working for us but things have changed - and thats ok. Dont worry, I know now that my original blurt out post was really unreasonable and I know to chill out now :)

FYI I have a friend who is a single parent and Consultant Gynaecologist and has a child with SEN. She pays a nanny full time despite the fact dc is in school. Why? Support at school, sick days, school holidays, support at home (laundry, scheduling therapies and appointments). She probably uses 6 hours of full time (she pays for a 11 hour day) most days outside of school holidays, but she knows in her situation she needs to ensure she always has those 10 hours available. They are used in school holidays, sick days, but the rest just mean it’s fair all round, doesn’t build resentment and means she has stable childcare - her support has been with the family 4 years and provides excellent supports. Yes, she’s a Dr (Consultant) but is a single parent to 3 DC and has to pay ex support as he has a mental breakdown, so it wasn’t like she had lots of extra ££ but she knows this is the only way to ensure care.

@Figamol - you sound a great Mum and it sounds like you have good intentions that just went a little off due to very real anxieties I understand well. Good luck!

What's with all the "if you want flexibility then you need to pay for full time hours".

I work part time. In the NHS. I have to be avaliable 24/7 for whatever shifts I am given up to my part time hours (including working more than 24 hours if required as long as I given the time back elsewhere). It's standard NHS conditions. Lots of other employers operate similar conditions.

The one point you have not addressed OP is why you feel your wage you pay her should be enough to live on just because she makes “practically” the same amount as a full time minimum salary worker ? I assume your combined family income surpasses what you pay her. You are presumably comfortable enough on your income yet you expect someone else to be employed on a casual type basis to be ok with making whatever you’re paying her ?

You can’t dictate that she not interact with another person. That is controlling & weird. You also can’t control what she does on her phone while with your child. You have to trust in her professionalism that she will only use her phone as needed. I don’t think it matters whether she is emailing about the other child or her mate.

At the end of the day, it sounds like you’re really just upset with the other parent, as a lot of these rules are based around the other child specifically. It sound highly personal. She could easily be skirting your rules to interact with & email her boyfriend !

I honestly don’t even think you should discuss this with her unless you are going to offer her a full time salaried position - which you can’t even afford to pay her, yet you seem to be upset that she wants to make money too! You can’t afford what you’re asking & glad you have realised this ! But am still unsure that you really grasp what you were asking for & what you are paying her is not in alignment.

In terms of another person I don't know anything about your home set up but I would consider a "babysitter" day or evening so that you gave someone else who can manage your child and who thry know, so that if you need more help then you have someone you can call on.

Different situation but we have 3children close in age and we only have 1 person who we pay to look after them and no one else. Means we are sometimes stuck if we want to go out etc and she isn't available.

Yeah you can’t do that. She’ll definitely leave if you do.

@prawnsword I do totally get it now - but I would never assume anything about someones financial situation, I have to take on extra contracts in addition to my full time job myself to pay for this. I only stated we pay her a good way above going rate salary - that was not a statement that we pay her enough to not work anywhere else. In fact the TA we hired was delighted with our offer and actually stated 'oh good I dont need a second job now'. But things change and as I said - thats ok.

As for basic good practise - in my own work contract for a multinational, I am not allowed do work for or anything related to a second job during the hours I work for them, its black and white and good employee practice and ensures no blurred lines. I dont know a classroom situation where being on a phone would be ok anyway?

@countryescape yep i know. Im really over my crazy OP ;)

You've done a blinding job for your child, but you cannot dictate what your employee does outside of the hours you pay for. If you want her to be available to you full time, you need to pay her full time wages
Sorry

Ah
Ignore
You've moved on
Good for you

@Figamol have you applied for an EHCP?

Hi OP

Just wanted to wish you good luck. You sound so strong and tenacious. And you've taken the 'feedback' on here really well.
I reckon a calm honest conversation with her is the way forwards.
You catch more flies with honey.

Best of luck with it all. Must be such a worry.

I see youve taken feedback on board. I think you have been a bit misled by the TA. Offering herself as a sole support and then taking on another person.

Yes be kind but equally its up to her to allay your concerns and you are right to ask how she envisages the new arrangement working and not compromising the role she has with you, particularly on trips or at the start of the year.

Have an idea of what you want to acheive , where you will and wont compromise and let her set out arrangements. If it breaches your red lines stay calm and whilst making it clear that this isn't suitable suggest you both go away and think about it. Keep it calm. Is it all down to you or is your dh involved?

@ZenNudist Thanks, a little misled but life changes . our family seem to be in perpetual change so I get it :) My more zen husband will be the one handling - he's less 'emotional' than me, but I'm so much calmer thanks to my deserved online beating ;)

I understand your frustration but as others have said, unless you are paying her for hours you might want in the future, some of what you want would not be viewed as reasonable in employment terms.

My real issue would be the fact that once she starts working with the other child, both children will view her as "my helper" and it could be very difficult for her to keep the boundaries that you (reasonably) want. It sounds easy on paper but if one of the children asks for help is she supposed to say "sorry, I can't help you today". How will the children react to this, how uncomfortable will it make her feel? I would have that conversation with her as otherwise she might end up feeling so pulled between the two she decides it's easier to go elsewhere.

My only other idea would be to ask her at what point she would feel she has enough hours just with your child to not take on other work and see if you could stretch to it (and I know that might not be an option, just trying to think of solutions for you!).