to put rules in place for employee with second job?

[Figamol]

Very long story short!

After 3 traumatic years in the state system, we pulled the money (and blood and limbs) together to put our special needs child in a private school with a one on one funded by us. We found a great girl and its going so well - one of the main reasons we hired her was because she insisted it would be her only job, which was great for our child as it meant she had the flexibility to adapt to his changing needs and we had the possibility to give her extra hours if he was having a bad day or school outing etc..

I coached another parent at the school who now also needs a one on one on how we found her, what we put in place and offered to help her.
Turns out the parent then approached our own one on one to do some hours with her child.

I'm very protective over what we have now managed to put in place. But there's not much we can do about that as of course she can accept more hours outside of her contract with us if she wants. But as our contract hours will be more than double than the child she takes on - practically we want to make sure things run smoothly and there are no blurred lines. Putting in place support isn't an exact science and needs can change at any given moment for any reason and joint supervision would not work (different ages/needs etc) She has assured us our own child is the priority so I'd love feedback on the following ideas:

Law dictates breaks - if her other hours mean the total working day changes the breaks required - these additional breaks will not happen during the hours contracted to us.
No preparation for, conversations about, emails or meetings will happen about the other child during the hours contracted to us.
There will be no interaction (as much as possible)/joint supervision of the other child during hours contracted to us.
If there are special events/trips - she must make herself available for for our child.
We reserve the right to change her hours to fit our child's needs.
At the start of the school year, she must not fix her hours for other children until our child's need have been defined. This could take up to 4 weeks.
She should also be available for more hours during the 'Back to school' phase until he is settled (this often means full days in the beginning.)

I also wanted to know what happens legally if she is injured during her other contract time? What rights do we have to protect our own child's needs during that time.

Thanks in advance to those who might be able to give input into what is/isn't reasonable.

@Soontobe60 The only plan he has now is the one we've written up with the school and TA.

The velcro syndrome is always a worry but we'll get an independent evaluation done every term to see where we're up to and what he needs I guess. At the moment she manages this by helping other children in the classroom and we're happy to pay for that as it reduces any 'stigma' for our own child - ie the kids kind of think she's there for all of them ;)

@category12 Agree - honestly, I really hadn't realised using the word girl was so offensive - I'm 42 and get called it all the time by those older than me at work and I hadn't thought much of it.

It's impressive how quickly you accepted advice, OP! I must admit I'd be really frustrated with the parent who you tried to help! That's some CFery on her part!

It's probably too late now, but have you thought about paying the young woman a retainer?

@saraclara yes I think I knew I was being reasonable - just needed a place to vent and have a kick up the bum.

And yes I'm super disappointed by the mum I helped - she was trying to get our assistant to change her hours to fit her son in behind our backs. All it would have taken was a quick message to be polite and I would probably have felt very differently about all this.

Sorry I don't fully understand the arrangement you have, but you've had good advice from others on that.

But a different thought - would you consider splitting your DD's care between two people? Including her in-school care. It gives you more flexibility, what happens if your super-carer is off sick? Could you set up a shared two-people arrangement with the other family?

@figamol

It’s very hard (laughs at the understatement of the year) to find a 1:1 that works & I understand you feeling protective of your needs, but I’m glad you now realise this isn’t the way to go about retaining her & maintaining the flexibility you need.

The thung us it doesn’t matter if you’re paying her the equivalent of a position in the state system - she’s in a position to earn more than that and either you need to pay her what she can command or accept she will take another job alongside yours. It’s a shame you didn’t get it in your contract if she had agreed not to, but you didn’t.

If you trust her, then you need to trust her to manage her time when she’s with your DS. Whether that’s taking phone calls from the other family or the Queen.

I’m sorry this has happened and made you concerned for your DS’s care, it is so hard with a child with additional needs.

I hope it all works out ok, take care 🌷

It’s great that you put it here first instead of speaking to her as it’s a good sounding board. Totally understandable why you are so protective of the situation you have managed to arrange as it works for your family! Good luck and I hope it all works out.

At the moment she manages this by helping other children in the classroom and we're happy to pay for that as it reduces any 'stigma' for our own child - ie the kids kind of think she's there for all of them ;)

I am so glad DS was in a state school with fulltime funded TA support. The TAs also helped other kids when DS didn't need them (and I do believe that compensated for extra demands DS put on the teacher) but DS was their top priority. I couldn't have afforded to pay for that myself, not on top of school fees. One of the first things I said to the school was "can his care be shared between two TAs" and the reply was "already organised it" But that was a long time ago and I know we very lucky to get it even then.

It's great that you have a found a set-up that works for your DS (sorry I said DD) and I understand why you want to protect it But putting all that reliance on just one person might not be ideal in the long run.

I would speak to the other parent and the TA and ask them how they think various situations should be handled. I suspect they may not have even occurred to them let alone given them thought.

Could you discuss the other parent employing a different TA very part time as well as sharing the main one? You can sell the advantages such as TA being ill or needing leave or in fact leaving?

@AmaryllisNightAndDay Thanks for your feedback. I hadn't thought of having two people in place. Would you share more on how that worked practically and help me better understand why that might be a good idea?

When I read through your rules, what came through to me was blind panic. And I understand that -obviously your priority is your child and his needs, and you want to do the very best for him, you found someone who fitted his needs and you are scared his needs will be compromised if she takes on further employment.

I totally get that - and further posts show you are a reasonable person - your rules were a knee jerk reaction to a situation your felt might impact your child. It must be very hard when you think you have found someone perfect for his needs that you may lose what you have worked hard to put in place.

That said - your rules are unreasonable and will drive her away - you know that. Just give yourself a little breathing time to think calmly and decide how your can work things out without driving her away.

Have a talk with her - outline your concerns and she may very well be able to reassure you. At the moment you are anticipating things that may never happen and trying to cover them with stringent rules.
keep talking to her if any problems arise - as and when they do - let her help with the solution, ask her how you can overcome any problems.

Treat her as part of your team - the team in place to help your child.You don't want to lose her - make her a full part of any discussions, show her your trust her and assume she has your child's best interests at heart.

Working with people, rather than introducing loads of rules, is the way to keep them onside. Show that you are super reasonable employers. What she is doing for your child should not in any way change just because she has taken on further work, if changes occur, deal with them as they arise.

Your rules look like you don't trust her to make fair and sensible decisions, you are assuming things will happen that she might never dream of allowing to happen, assuming she will somehow let your child down.

This should be a situation that will work out fine, bar maybe one or two solvable teething problems. Don't throw away what you have because you are fearing all the worst outcomes.

Good luck.

OP, I imagine you are very worried that now you finally seem to have got this worked out it seems to have had a spanner thrown in the works.

I think the most reasonable thing you can do is share your concerns with her in a kind way. I am sure that she will understand how you feel and I am sure that the two of you can work it out without you feeling the need to come down heavy handed on her.

From what I have seen of 1-to-1 support in state school, they always end up interacting with other children (the Non-SEN ones). The kids don't know the difference, they won't leave handy adults alone, and it would be a model of rudeness to say "No I can't talk to you or help you in any way, I'm only here for Felix!" etc.

I'm confused coz OP wrote
There will be no interaction (as much as possible)/joint supervision of the other child during hours contracted to us.

& yet OP also wrote
[the paid support person] manages this by helping other children in the classroom and we're happy to pay for that as it reduces any 'stigma' for our own child - ie the kids kind of think she's there for all of them

You're all defensive about this one other needy child rather than seeing the other parent willing to pay for even more time from the spare adult as an opportunity for both of you; pool your resources to get more support for both your children. They don't need to be in competition.

Who employs her? It's very unusual for any school to be happy with staff employed by parents working on their site outside of the headteacher's control. I have known a school's stance on this to change when the headteacher has changed, so you are on risky ground anyway if you're employing her directly.

You cannot achieve the sort of stability/control you are trying to by attempting to treat an LSA in this manner. People get ill, have babies, move house and otherwise choose to leave jobs.

The better way to achieve stability/control is to divide the LSA role between more than one person - this means there's the potential for someone else to be able to cover when the other person is off ill and your child has more than one person they're likely to be happy with at school.

@lljkk They're three school years apart and not in the same class so it will be easy to manage the joint supervision point. Yes, you're very right, I'm feeling defensive, mostly about the way the other parent was trying to get her to change her hours without popping me a polite message after all the help and ideas I gave her. I guess I just feel there's a way of doing things. The reason we went to private school is because the pooling thing just didn't work for our child and there weren't the resources to help him differently - so despite my feelings about the other parent - this really is a needs driven conversation.

I know someone who does this, the child does have quite specific needs so the 1:1 is employed for the full school week, term time only. I think that's the best option

DS's TAs were already employed by the school and worked with other kids the rest of the time. Sorry I don't know how you would need to arrange it,my DS was in state education and his TAs were provided by the school. I did occasionally pay the TAs for care out of school; one of the TAs also acted as an au pair before and after school for another youngster with additional needs (I didn't contact his employer to ask permission when I asked for one-off care, I trusted the TA to know if he was available.) DS also had one-to-one at the after-school care club for a day a week; not one of the school TAs but one of the club staff. We would have paid for that ourselves but there was a council-funded scheme at the time which included training for the staff.

And why was it a good idea? Well, my first thought was that DS could be very demanding and splitting his care was better for the TAs. My next thought was that staff come and go, they can be off sick, so if two people was in place who were trained and knew DS's needs then if one wasn't available the other would be there to fill the gap, at least temporarily, and to smooth the transition if someone left. You can't rely on one person being there forever, younger people especially move on. My last thought was that being around a range of different adults was socially good for DS. He was introduced to a new TA every couple of years to avoid over-reliance.

@independentfriend We employ her but we involved the school in the recruitment so they would be happy with who was in place. It worked - fingers crossed for the future, although we're used to dealing with curve balls - I guess that would be another one we'd handle :)

It's a good idea to be thinking about plan B - its probably a good time to get on that now!

You sound weird, controlling, possessive and a bit unhinged tbh. Possibly a bit obsessed as well.

If I were the carer, I'd be telling you to fuck off.

@burnagirl It can be a downside trait of being a special needs mum. Luckily forums like this are good for having that beaten out of us when needed ;)

Everything @AmaryllisNightAndDay has said is sound advice and struck me from reading your first post.

I can see how easy it is to do but when you’re dealing with specific needs you always need a plan b, even better if you have a plan c too! Granted I have no experience with children but I have had arrangements fall through with little/no notice for a disabled adult relative. It’s not a nice way to live, always having to plan for the worst scenario, but when it inevitably happens (and it does unless you’re extraordinarily lucky) because people move on, get ill, get pregnant, change career etc. It’s so much less stressful to know what you’re going to do.

For the future as a rule of thumb I would ask myself if someone with their own personal caring commitments could reasonably do what I was asking. If not then it’s highly likely you’re being unreasonable.

@burnagirl
You sound like you haven’t read the whole thread. And I think at this point if I was the op I’d be saying the same to you.

If there are special events/trips - she must make herself available for for our child. - she cannot portion out all of her hours to you. In case you go on a trip. That is like a boss saying. You’re not to leave more than a 5 mile radius OUTSIDE of work. Just in case I need you. It wouldn’t fly legally.

We reserve the right to change her hours to fit our child's needs. - again. This you CANT DO LEGALLY. She can’t be there just for you. If she’s not with you! When she’s with you. Of course you can offer. However what if she’s said she was going to her grannys funeral?!? She’s outside of your house and your contract. No way can you implement this. You can ask however.

At the start of the school year, she must not fix her hours for other children until our child's need have been defined. This could take up to 4 weeks. You CANNT ask her to make sure she available outside of her working hours to you!!

She should also be available for more hours during the 'Back to school' phase until he is settled (this often means full days in the beginning.) - she’s can’t reserve hours. You can however draw up a contract with her hours and if you don’t need her to work then. Then she can have them free. HOWEVER. You WILL HAVW TO PAY HER FOR ALL HOURS CONTRACTED

If you want this kind of flexibility, then I am afraid that you need to pay for it.

I think you need to have an honest conversation with her about your concerns, and probably the question of how much exclusivity would cost you? Making it clear that outside of school hours her time is her own, that she could work a second job then, but that during school hours you would like her to be available to your son. Maybe it makes more sense as a salary than hourly rate.