To think that being Italian is no excuse for gang rape? (distressing details)

[Clymene]

There two revolting men grabbed a drunk woman in a club, took her to a service room and passed her back and forth between them like a doll, filming as they raped her. They left her comatose body in the loo with severe injuries, and high fived as they left the club. Then they left the country.

They were given 7 years each and their defence argued that because they're Italian, they don't really understand consent.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/anger-as-nightclub-rapists-ferdinando-orlando-and-lorenzo-costanzo-jailed-for-seven-years-pjxkwgh05?shareToken=0fe877148f90c60b5ba52481bf33c196

I wonder how any lawyer in their right mind could actually stand there argue that being Italian (or any nationality) means that you don't fully understand consent? Wtf! How patronising to Italians, not to mention the victim in this case. Seven years is a joke. I bet they’ve done this to other women, but just not been caught.

😔 that poor lady

It isn’t. It also wasn’t accepted in court as an excuse.

It's disgusting and wrong.
I just want to weep when I hear about these types of so called defenses

Disgusting! My sons are Italian and they understand consent because they're not revolting excuses for human beings.

I always take newspaper reporting of legal cases with a pinch of salt, as it’s nearly always misrepresented in some way. I agree that these are very short sentences - there are guidelines for sentencing rape cases as with many other crimes. Being Italian is certainly not a mitigating factor in the guidelines, nor is cultural background generally. I’d bet if you read the Judge’s full sentencing remarks you’d see another reason, whether you agree with it or not. The Attorney General can also refer the case to the Court of Appeal if it appears to be unduly lenient.

I absolutely agree, poor poor woman though. It never ceases to amaze me how badly some men (some human beings but we’re discussing men in this case ) can treat others.

I've read about this case in the Italian press and the father of one is absolutely livid about it and completely thinks his son has done nothing wrong. It makes you wonder what sort of values he grew up with.

Whether the judge agreed with the defence or not, that was what their defence argued. Clutching at straws really because there's fuck all mitigation for these animals.

If that's what his father thinks, I feel enormously sorry for the piece of shit's mother.

7 years?

Omg that's way too little.

She had to have surgery ffs they totally brutalised her.

Why are women and girls worth so little?

It seems the subcontext to this is that they thought she was fair game because she was drunk. They may have been brought up to believe it's demeaning to women to drink.

Poor woman, what an awful thing to happen to her. She's going to need lots of support

'It seems the subcontext to this is that they thought she was fair game because she was drunk'

That's an attitude that's hardly restricted to Italians.

Loads of men of all countries all over the world think this.

I agree Fraggling. For some men if the woman is drunk and doesn't say no then it's not rape it's surprise sex.

Yeah I wasn't linking it in to their nationality, I thought it more likely to be due to their nasty mindset.

It's a shame she appears to have got separated from her friends for a short while

It doesn't say much for his law school either if he is having that much difficulty understanding the concept of consent.

Disgusting animals the pair of them.

I watched the cctv of this, they are vile scum.

That poor poor woman.

It is disgusting. The footage of them hugging and celebrating afterwards.

Loads of men of all countries all over the world think this
This.
I was cornered in Spain once when I was 20, I was semi drunk so able to scream and shout thankfully my friends came in time.
Another year our drinks were spiked in the bar by staff.
They took ages to make them, I drank half of mine, my friend thought hers was cloudy.
I was leg less within an hour we were an hour into our night out, she took me home.
I once pulled a fella off my friend, she was leaning against a bin outside the club, he was in front as cheeky as fuck, she was walking in front of us minutes before, he walked up and had sex with her.
She is dry since.
Those incidents were over a decade ago, I hope the #metoo consent campaigns make more guys think twice.

Seven years is too little for this brutal crime, and the defense was not accepted in court.

Having said that the defense lawyers were obliged to come up with some kind of defense for what was an indefensible crime. Their duty was to their clients not to reason.

They are utter fucking scum and so is the Dad. Does he think it is normal to have sex with a woman and leave her with serious injuries? They should have got life. Perhaps if more rapists started getting life, rapes might go down a bit, because education doesn't seem to be getting through.

They are vile scum, but not all Italian men are like this. There are violent, macho, entitled misogynists everywhere, but to say that all Italian men think that way is horrible. I know plenty of Italian men who would be utterly disgusted by their behaviour. That poor woman

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50257922
The court ruled out rape because the victim was in an "unconscious state" and the accused had not used violence or intimidation.

This is a requirement under Spanish law for a charge of sexual assault, which is legally the equivalent of rape.
This case was harrowing. I am glad they got a decent stretch even if not for rape.
How can we educate and stop some young men doing this.

I just read it. She needed surgery! what the fuck! Surely rape that leads to needing surgery should have an additional charge of GBH. Surely you would need some kind of weapon to hurt someone to that extent? or maybe I'm naive. I'm shocked that a defence lawyer could argue 'cultural differences' for something like that.

That's the clutching at straws defence, right up there with the 'rough sex' defence IMHO.
I suppose if you're a defence lawyer you have to use anything you can, particularly when your defendant is guilty as hell,

So in Italy is it legal to have sex with women who are so incapacitated they can’t consent?

Really hope not.

Glad they were found guilty.