To think that being Italian is no excuse for gang rape? (distressing details)

[Clymene]

There two revolting men grabbed a drunk woman in a club, took her to a service room and passed her back and forth between them like a doll, filming as they raped her. They left her comatose body in the loo with severe injuries, and high fived as they left the club. Then they left the country.

They were given 7 years each and their defence argued that because they're Italian, they don't really understand consent.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/anger-as-nightclub-rapists-ferdinando-orlando-and-lorenzo-costanzo-jailed-for-seven-years-pjxkwgh05?shareToken=0fe877148f90c60b5ba52481bf33c196

She needed surgery! what the fuck! Surely rape that leads to needing surgery should have an additional charge of GBH.

Yes but iirc in this case the doctors couldn’t say what had caused the injury and when. As the complainant had no memory of it either, I think they couldn’t be charged.

So in Italy is it legal to have sex with women who are so incapacitated they can’t consent?

I don’t recall ‘too drunk to consent’ being a thing i Italy tbh. Happy to be corrected.

Sorry I've derailed this a bit by starting talking about some men's attitudes towards women being drunk

I did read the father of one of them was spitting feathers about their conviction and was gobsmacked. She was just a toy for them to do what they wanted with as far as they were concerned.

I suppose it’s similar To the Ched Evans case. She was too drunk to consent but eventually found not guilty after a retrial. A lot of people said he’d done nothing wrong.

People like this Italian boy’s father will see such verdicts and think they have a right to have sex with virtually comatose women.

What bollocks, that is appalling, poor woman. Honestly! I can hardly believe it, as if being Italian is a reason for not understanding consent. I've known loads of Italians and the men are generally very family orientated and treat women respectfully.

This pair are disgusting - not boys either (not that that would be an excuse if they were), they are both mid twenties and well educated. Goodness know what their parents will have to say.

I suppose it’s similar To the Ched Evans case. She was too drunk to consent but eventually found not guilty after a retrial. A lot of people said he’d done nothing wrong

I broke the number one rule of the internet and read the comments section on news articles about this. The comments are overwhelmingly in support of this young woman and her right to go out and have a drink without being assaulted by "foreigners". I'd bet a lot of the people commenting in a similar vein will be the exact same ones who were commenting that Ched Evan's victim deserved it because she was too drunk. The double standards are real.

Considering one of them is an international law student I would say not understanding consent whatever the cultural context is, to be frank - bollocks.

Shame on the parents who raised those animals, and let's see if they're high fiving when the prison daddy takes a shine to them and they get a dose of their own medicine.

I saw this yesterday. They destroyed her and high fived each other. Disgusting. Revolting 'men'. The father who is gobsmacked by the sentence deserves a term in prison as well. Attitudes like that.......

One was a LAW STUDENT. If you don't understand consent then you cannot study law.

They didn't tape because they didn't understand consent. They raped because they thought consent was irrelevant.

The father... Would he day the same thing if it was his daughter who had been subjected to his sons behaviour?

These scumbags have been at it a while.
You don't just start at rape like this.
I wonder how many others have passed through their hands.
Poor lass.

I've known loads of Italians and the men are generally very family orientated and treat women respectfully.

I’ve spent a lot of time in Italy and have a home there. There are lots of lovely Italian men and you can’t judge a nation on two examples. But I don’t find the family orientation to necessarily result in treating women respectfully, in some ways it fuels traditional sexism/misogyny. Catholicism doesn’t help.

Think of Amanda Knox’s treatment by the criminal justice system.

Given that people seem to be let out halfway through their sentence as routine, it's a really short jail-term. Clearly the pair are a danger to the public. I'm actually quite anti-prison, a lot of the time it's used unnecessarily for petty criminals and drug addicts, but for violent crimes, the sentences in this country often seem ridiculously short.

From my interactions in Italy I find that there is very much a Madonna/whore complex int heir culture. While they may be loving and respectful to their mothers and sisters, a drunk, alone woman on a night out would not be seen as worth of the same gentleness and respect

From my interactions in Italy I find that there is very much a Madonna/whore complex int heir culture. While they may be loving and respectful to their mothers and sisters, a drunk, alone woman on a night out would not be seen as worth of the same gentleness and respect

Exactly what I was referring to above.

I've lived in a few different countries and in my experience, the heavily catholic ones have all been more conservative, sexist, homophobic and "macho".

They didn't rape because they didn't understand consent. They raped because they thought consent was irrelevant.
This sums it up. Absolute fucking animals.

Some criminals like this shouldn’t ever be released. They should be placed in high security units and classed as dangerous psychopaths. This is not a “normal” crime. It’s not about retribution or “doing your time” it’s about public safety. I wish the justice system would prioritize public safety. Who wants them moving in next door in a few years?

This has made me feel sick, horrendous CRIME and no way on earth would this be a confusion of consent - these 2 would have known it was an act of crime, not least because they left her in the toilet. If they'd felt any other way, they'd have walked her out or got help.

This is animalistic behaviour.

My heart goes out to this young woman and I hope she has support and finds the strength to move in with her life - she did not deserve this, any of it.

The father... Would he day the same thing if it was his daughter who had been subjected to his sons behaviour?

His dd would never be out drunk in a club.

And that's the way he thinks it should be.

Not unlike the attitude of the gang rapists and murdered who killed the Indian young woman, who thought he'd being out after dark drinking in a bar with a male/makes meant she was fair game for rape (and apparently a brutal death as well).

*murderers

There has been a similar story in Spain involving a 14-year-old this month that has caused much outrage. From the BBC website:
“A Barcelona court's decision to acquit five men accused of gang-raping a 14-year-old girl of the charge of sexual assault has provoked outrage.
The court ruled out rape because the victim was in an "unconscious state" and the accused had not used violence or intimidation.
This is a requirement under Spanish law for a charge of sexual assault, which is legally the equivalent of rape.”

Young men do not do this. The vast majority of people are good and decent.

It's an insult to all Italians.

Of course "italians" understand consent.