to think the natural birth at all costs ideology is fucking crackers?

[burnagirl]

We have a scandal on our hands. Shrewsbury Maternity Unit.

I couldn't believe what I was reading, but to be honest, I wasn't all that surprised, having had many a run in with the natural birthers/earth mothers in the past.

There is a toxic and insidious ideology permeating the 'birth culture' in the UK. This culture that tells women that our bodies were 'made' to give birth, that our bodies KNOWWWW what to do, that any intervention means failure on our part. That childbirth pain is something to be endured with happiness and joy - I mean, really? Is it some sort of a more 'noble' pain? Something transcendental and sacred and good?

Nah, fuck off with that. You wouldn't have a root canal with no pain relief, so WHY do we fetishise female suffering in childbirth? To me, there's this mile-wide misogynistic miasma around this narrative, probably rooted in religion.

Then there's this totally daft idea of intervention/c-section being a failure. Such bollocks. We don't seem to realise that, from an evolutionary perspective, it isn't even necessary for MOST mothers to survive childbirth. All we need is ENOUGH mothers and babies to survive, so no, our bodies are not sacred temples that somehow magically Know Best.

Can we please do away with the woo around childbirth and just do what needs to be done to ensure that mothers and babies come out of the (let's face it, fucking painful and dangerous) process alive and well, however the hell it happens?

Agreed and sadly I had this type of midwife. I was at a midwife led unit . I asked for paracetamol ( gas & air wasn't doing anything ) she said I could have some if I had some with me .. partner went to get them out of the car. Around 5 hours in I was really struggling I asked for pethidine but was refused and she said let's just try one more hour . One hour passed and she said no it will slow things up. I begged for anti sickness as was vomiting bad and was going dizzy. I got that but only because I said I was a nurse and needed it To be given IM as I was vomiting to much for oral tablets . It just seemed that I had to keep suffering . Then when I had baby she was just telling my family how well I had done how easy I made it look and now they don't take me serious when I say how much pain I was in. They just say no it was nothing for you it was like shelling peas. It Absolutely wasn't.i felt like I was going to die and I feel traumatised by my whole "natural" birth

Using the words 'normal' and 'natural' for a drug/intervention free, vaginal birth is a loads of cobblers.

If that's what you want and manage to get, that's great and is normal and natural for you.

I had an emergency C Section (my DS would have died otherwise) so that was normal and natural for me.

Who cares, as long as you are happy.

We've already had the tit-police over the years making women feel guilty, let's not have it with the bullshit 'natural' argument.

That was to Commander

My labour wasn’t three days. Just 14 hours. Midwives very good. Respectful. Person next to me had a bad time though.

@MarshaBradyo was that recent?

Yes Dec 2017 how about you?

Labour ward closed due to how busy it was did get stuck pre labour for three nights downstairs but nothing compared to others.

Occasionally, her pelvis just isn't the ideal shape or size - but hows that a fail??

That coupled with the fact that dh's family all have giant heads at birth seems to be my problem. When you're surrounded by people telling you won't grow a baby you can't birth of course it feels like failure when you manage to do just that. I'm 5'8, the tallest woman in both mine and dh's families and the only one who couldn't get a baby through her pelvis. Obviously the older they get, the less I care but at the time whilst very hormonal I cared a lot and it absolutely felt like failure. Especially given the fact that he went to NICU and they blamed me for refusing interventions I wasn't offered and putting him there.

The whole concept of "normal" birth is deeply misogynistic. CentralPerk there is so much dangerous misinformation in your long post, I think it reflects exactly the culture the opening post was about.

Don't get me STARTED on the tit police.

I breastfed for 2 years and 10 months. Hated every fucking minute but perservered cause 'best for child'. Yeah, but at what cost to ME? Never, ever again. No way will I ever put myself through that again.

IF I ever have another child, I definitely won't breastfeed for anywhere as long, if at all. Oh no, no, no, no.

As a midwife I read the preliminary report in horror, gobsmacked that such things have been allowed to happen. I honestly don’t think the problem is pushing natural birth over intervention.

The problem is ANYONE thinking they know better and can make choices for another person when it’s them giving birth. If someone wants to give birth in the sea, surrounded by dolphins, fine. If they want an elective section fine. It’s not for anyone to decide what’s best for that woman and as midwives it’s our job to give women all the information so that THEY can make their own choice.

I don’t think anyone should feel like a failure at all, I don’t for refusing to be induced without pain relief, it’s more painful.

But I also don’t think people should feel bizarre or wrong for not wanting pain relief and focusing on getting through the birth (bar medical necessity).

No one should make anyone else feel bad. Which is happening on this thread.

Also in bfding I don’t want to feel strange for bfding to 20 months and then stopping - my choice.

Sorry crossed post! I had my own midwife as I was in a trial called Oakwood midwives. They were amazing. Doctors were awful. Guy came to break my waters on day three of induction when I was1 cm, he didn't tell me what he was doing and I was screaming, it was horrendous. Then another 36hours of non progression before they put me on drip even though consultant had been round that morning and said I needed section. After drip was when I got sepsis and then taken to theatre where they pulled out by forceps after prepping for section. Then she was in scbu. Doctor came and apologised the next day while I was mid transfusion!

I still feel strongly obviously 😬

Bloody hell I would too!

@MarshaBradyo it jsut really annoyed me how they weren't talking to each other about it and I seemed to just be left without anyone taking responsibility. Anyway that was five years ago so maybe better now. It's a very busy hospital and the antenatal care was second to none. Jsut the birth was awful.

Couldn't agree more. Would we attend the dentist for a painful procedure without pain relief? No. Why is childbirth any different. 3 elective sections and not a moment of regret.

Yes the antenatal is excellent the labour ward can be ridiculously busy. I think it can verge on the dangerous - woman next to me refused assessment and told not to push as room not ready. I would have pushed the baby out in corridor. Sounded barbaric.

So it's ok to shame people who wanted a drug free birth without any unnecessary interventions now?

I dont really give a shit how much other women choose to give birth. I wanted to do everything I could to avoid the possibility of having to be operated on because the thought of that terrified me. I mean, despite what people on here are saying, it is a natural bodily process that works for most women (and not anything like a root canal ). If not, we now have other options which is great.

I agree with parts of op's argument and disagree with others.

"This culture that tells women that our bodies were 'made' to give birth, that our bodies KNOWWWW what to do"

I obviously can't speak for others but for me personally I do feel like my body was made to give birth and that it knew what to do (I didn't have any coached pushing and my body took the lead). I'm also proud that I managed with a bit of gas and air for the last bit and being in the water.

Does that mean I'm 'woo' or an 'earth mother'? Of course not, I'm just a normal person.

Does this mean I'm anti-intervention or pain relieving drugs? No! I think both are fantastic and important. In some cases life-saving. I don't look down on people who have had interventions, that would be ridiculous of me. I think that anyone who has gone through any birth experience has done well and should be proud of themselves.

I don't understand why we can't just be ok with all types of birth. Why does what I personally think about my own individual body have to be judged as 'woo'? I'd never dream of judging anyone else.

Also it confuses me that some people on here think that c-sections are natural. I'm all in favour of c-sections - planned or not - but they aren't natural and that is just a fact. The fact that something is unnatural doesn't need to have negative connotations. There was nothing natural about any of the scans I had while pregnant but scans are obviously important!

Totally agree, it’s deeply misogynistic and dangerous to shame women for this.

I remember seeing a doctor once when I put my back out and she was explaining that we haven’t fully evolved to walk on two legs yet, which is why so many people get back pain. It’s also why we have a relatively high risk labour compared to other mammals, our pelvis just hasn’t adapted enough yet.

So it's ok to shame people who wanted a drug free birth without any unnecessary interventions now?

I am baffled how anyone is drawing that from this thread. I certainly don’t feel shamed or that anyone has attempted to shame me.

I have however said that one of my two intervention-free, bit of G&A births would have been a lot safer with timely interventions. We got very lucky.

And I find the ‘avoid interventions and surgery at all possible costs’ mindset pretty dangerous, particularly when found in medical professionals responsible for supporting women during childbirth. We need calm, complete, factual information so we can make our own choices on what’s ok for us.

All the talk of woo batshit is what’s doing it.

And the tired and incorrect dental routine stuff.

Also it confuses me that some people on here think that c-sections are natural.

Can you quote where someone has said this? I’ll admit I missed it.

I too can recognise both sides of the divide in relation to my own experiences of birth. For my first I swallowed the hypnobirthing course I did (Marie Mongan) totally around the idea that there was a right way (natural birth waterbirth, no intervention) and a wrong way to give birth (medicalised, intervention, in stirrups etc). It actually really helped me to deal with the pain (sorry 'waves') but my longed for water birth didn't happen and i gave birth in stirrups 'purple pushing' as instructed by midwives. On paper an intervention free vaginal birth, in practice I came home feeling a failure thanks to that course and it's idealisation of natural birth but also perhaps due to medicalisation of birth in hospitals (eg I'm sure consultant checks slowed things down, I will always wonder of stirrups were necessary). I couldn't talk about it for months. So idealisation of natural birth in terms of the 'right' way to do it is a problem in my experience. But it's really important to acknowledge that we are not designed to give birth in a hospital environment and thus being in hospital will often slow things down and result in a cascade of further interventions. And how women feel about their births afterwards is so important, to them and their experiences of early parenthood. It matters how they feel about it, not just the health of mother and baby. With my second I cried when I found out I was pregnant as all the feelings of failure came back. I eventually found a much more flexible and less idealistic hypnobirthing course (the calm birth school) and opted for a homebirth as I didn't want to go back to hospital and the stats show this has the best outcomes for low risk second births. I think it's because a home environment is much more familiar and calm, and this will help with the pain as women are more relaxed. I had a homebirth against the medical advice of a consultant as baby was suspected to be big. The homebirth group mentioned by a PP helped me to come to an evidence based decision where I was aware of the risks and the size of those risks. Hospital births have risks as well as homebirths. I've seen so.many stories on the FB homebirth group of women being bullied into medical interventions they don't want where the emphasis seems to be very anti natural birth in hospitals, but I also recognise anti medical intervention sentiment on the group too. Both the idealisation of natural birth (anti intervention) and the medicalisation (pro intervention) lobbies exist and can be damaging to women. What they need is access to unbiased information about the benefits and risks of intervening or doing nothing (my consultant was not unbiased and very pro intervention). Plus more information about what causes pain in labour and how it can be managed naturally as well as using medical methods. And more support to every women who has given birth however they did it. No birth is easy and they all deserve admiration and respect.

Yes op

I had a text book perfect birth according to mid wife. I was 6 hours est labour. No stitches. But I'm more than a good pair of hips!

It traumatised me, and I had massage, essential oils... Gas and air.

Seconds Rome round a wondeful elc, planned calm.. Beautiful way to deliver...

All the talk of woo batshit is what’s doing it.

But that isn’t being applied to women who have made an informed choice to try to have a non-medicalised birth, and who aren’t trying to tell other women that they ‘should’ avoid drugs/interventions for reasonably spurious reasons.