About international men’s day blog

[Pumpkinspicewhatever]

I work for a big bank. We have an active company intranet and various blogs go up at different points in the calendar from the great and the good of the company. Most recently for international men’s day.
This blogs opening gambit was “did you know 1 in 3 men have experienced domestic violence?” (And no source to back this up) followed by a fact about how suicide rates are 3x higher for men than women.
Now I have no problem in theory with international men’s day and the associated celebrating good male role models etc, which is the main thrust of what my company seems to be doing. But to lead with a fact about men being common victims of DV (I can’t find the 1 in 3 statistic from a quickish google) feels really blind and inappropriate. DV across the world is more a problem for women than men. Surely this is universally accepted? Can’t they lead with anything more positive for IMD than misrepresenting what is a devastating social problem (more so for women?)
Not sure, but this didn’t sit well with me. I wish they had led with something else. I’ve asked the writer to clarify their source as well.

@Pumperthepumper

”I’m objecting to it being compared to women’s DV stats to make it seem like it’s more of a problem for men. The MRAs who wrote that blog were just so desperate to minimise DV for women”

Just out of curiosity, does this imply that because it’s “more of a problem”, meaning a higher percentage, for women, then it minimizes men’s problems because they aren’t the majority?

That seems to be what you’re saying, especially if “men” and “women” are reversed in your statement.

If so, it’s especially good that people are publicly speaking about a problem that’s massively underrepresented in public awareness.

My employer did a huge thing for International Men’s Day focusing on about 5 issues like health, DV, suicide, prostate cancer etc which is great but when it was International Women’s Day they did one thing about women who’ve achieved stuff.

I would have just liked them to have at least acknowledged the privileged position men have always held and still do hold in society compared to women.

Hearhooves because you are the one defending it, and acting like it’s an affront to men that people object to the wrong stats being used.

Pretzel no, it means they can’t discuss issues that affect men without comparing them to women. Which seems strange to me, when so many people refuse to talk about ‘men’s violence’ because we shouldn’t talk about men as a class.

I would have just liked them to have at least acknowledged the privileged position men have always held and still do hold in society compared to women.

But this is a subjective opinion and, as such, doesn't belong alongside actual statistics.

it means they can’t discuss issues that affect men without comparing them to women. Which seems strange to me,

It shouldn't seem strange. After all, that's all you have done on this thread, take the issues men face and try and belittle then in the face of women's issues.

What I’ve done on this thread, PB083 is repeat over and over again that they should not have published incorrect stats, and they should not have used women’s stats to make a point.

It’s so easy to understand. Anything else to say about the ‘male violence’ part of my post that you cropped out?

Oh, that’s right, you have a particular reason for defending male violence, don’t you?

@Pumperthepumper

“it means they can’t discuss issues that affect men without comparing them to women. “

Well, the DV issue with men as victims is of course going to involve women to some degree. I think that the statistic quoted by the OP has been pointed out by many to be accurate, just wrongly applied. Should be “victims are men” rather than “men”. And the comparison of course is to show that it’s not negligible.

”Which seems strange to me, when so many people refuse to talk about ‘men’s violence’ because we shouldn’t talk about men as a class.”

Violence is violence. I’m not sure what you mean by “as a class”, but I definitely know that broad averages shouldn’t be applied to individual instances.

Well, the DV issue with men as victims is of course going to involve women to some degree.

Why?

Because in some cases women are going to be the inflictor of the DV on the men who are the aforementioned victims.

So what are men doing about it.
Where are the men setting up DV shelters for men? I dont mean demanding the existing funding is split, or that the system of shelters we built and pay for includes you.

How many men actually do anything positive to help battered men?
How many men here donate to The Eaton clinic?

Why dont men ask for a tax on shaving products, the money to be used to help DV and rape victims? Why is it left sopely to women to do this?

There is plenty of positive action you could take, and there are plenty of ways women's charities could help you get started.

Can I ask what is the Eaton clinic cannot find any information about it?

Because in some cases women are going to be the inflictor of the DV on the men who are the aforementioned victims.

That was the exact reason a PP said we shouldn’t talk about male violence on IMD, because the perpetrators shouldn’t be given focus. So which is it?

@Inebriati

“How many men actually do anything positive to help battered men?”

Which is a huge part of the problem, so events that help men feel that they aren’t alone in these things and aren’t going to be ridiculed are important.

”Why dont men ask for a tax on shaving products, the money to be used to help DV and rape victims?”

Because that would be ridiculous - almost everybody uses shaving products. And applying a tax for palliative care also solves nothing - there needs to be more discussion to work out the cause(s) before any money can be spent fruitfully to deal with the root(s) of the problem.

” Why is it left sopely to women to do this?”

I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone asking women to do anything other than to stop treating men’s issues in a way that they wouldn’t want men to treat women’s issues.

”There is plenty of positive action you could take, and there are plenty of ways women's charities could help you get started.”

I’ll give you an anecdotal example of why that would be just as popular as women going to a men’s support organization for guidance on how to help women:

Years ago, my brother’s wife (then girlfriend) volunteered at a call centre for women. She believed in helping, likes being able to help the women who called in needing help or advice, and she fit in well with the others working there.

Then one day she was pulled into a meeting with the director and a couple of other higher-ups. She was told, bluntly, that it would be appreciated if she found somewhere else to volunteer.

It turns out that one evening after her shift, my brother had swung by to meet up with her (outside) because they were going on to some performance or other. Some of the others who worked there were outside smoking so she introduced him to them.

They complained to each other and it got passed upward, so she was pushed out for having a happy relationship with a man at a place that was apparently staffed by people that didn’t care for a challenge to their shared narrative.

No need to say that Not All Women Are Like This, but I’ve certainly encountered this. Many men have. I don’t know that a women’s charity, where pro-women becomes anti-men attitudes could well accumulate, is the first place a suffering man would want to go to get advice.

@Pumperthepumper

”That was the exact reason a PP said we shouldn’t talk about male violence on IMD, because the perpetrators shouldn’t be given focus. So which is it?”

I’m responsible for what someone who isn’t me said?

I will say, again, that violence is violence. Unless there’s a kind of violence unique to people based on whether they have a Y chromosome or not, I don’t really see what difference it makes in any given case what gender the perpetrator is.

Others may feel differently about the matter. So everybody gets to talk and everybody gets to hear. Where’s the issue?

It's happened twice now on this thread that a poster was told that the correct figure for the number of male victims was 1 in 8 (more accurately about 1 in 7.6) and they later posted about it being 1 in 9.

The first time I thought it was probably just a typo, the second time seems like it might be deliberate. Curious.

32% of domestic abuse crimes in Northern Ireland happen to men according to the Police stats.
Read this a few days ago

How many men here donate to The Eaton clinic?
Wasn’t the Eaton Clinic founded by a feminist?

Pretzl my point is, if you want to talk about the kind of people men are at risk from (ie the justification for comparing women’s stats to men’s) then you would not focus on women. Men are overwhelmingly more at risk from violence from other men, we all know this.

Why is it such a problem to call a spade a spade?

Physical violence, most likely yes. Abuse? I wouldn't be 100% sure about it...

Wasn’t the Eaton Clinic founded by a feminist?

You know, it was coatlessinspokane, Jessica Eaton and named after her fil.

Oh, that’s right, you have a particular reason for defending male violence, don’t you?

What would that be then? Go on...say it! Is it because, 15 years ago, I had a brief relationship with a woman who liked to be dominated and enjoyed rough sex...is that why? Pathetic attempt at undermining a perfectly legitimate opinion.

@Pumperthepumper

“Pretzl my point is, if you want to talk about the kind of people men are at risk from (ie the justification for comparing women’s stats to men’s) then you would not focus on women. Men are overwhelmingly more at risk from violence from other men, we all know this. “

Thank you for explaining to me who I’m at risk from.

DV I’ve been involved in: girlfriends who, when frustrated or mad have no problem hitting or throwing things and I just have to take it other than blocking as gently as I can, because in a culture dominated by a “boys shouldn’t hit girls, men shouldn’t hit women” narrative, I’m screwed if there’s any mark left that they can show people. They inevitably “remember” that “we were both doing it anyway”, and that effectively kills all future interaction with their family, friends, and anybody else they decide to share this with. The one where I put my arms up to protect my face and an ex managed to bruise her arm against my elbow was a good example of that - luckily it was witnessed.

My current business partner, a woman in her fifties, bursting into my room in the apartment we keep for when we’re at the business (not near either of our homes, and in a different country for me) because she has been dwelling all night on the conversation we’d had the evening before about how she has to stop comfort spending the income and make sure the business can still run when she’s the one there, and pummelling me while I was still in bed yelling “Hit me back hit me back so they’ll take you away!”.

”Why is it such a problem to call a spade a spade?”

Good question - why are you trying to divert what men have as problems into what you see fit?

That’s a spade - women controlling the narrative. You know what would be equality? Me defending myself the way I would when in a physical alteration with a man, which means finishing the fight as soon as possible, which means either laying into him until he either physically or mentally can’t continue, or running away.

“Feminism is about equality” is what always get bandied about, and yet I am at a huge disadvantage in a DV situation in a way that no woman is, because a woman with broken glasses, bleeding or bruised doesn’t get laughed at and dismissed when she says a man did it to her. I sure as hell do, and I get to deal with the emotional side myself too, forever.

So yeah: spade.

Can you make a point about 1/3 of people without making a point about the other 2/3?

ie that the 2/3 got it twice as bad as the 1/3, in a binary demographic at least

They should have fact checked though, that goes without saying

You can make the point that men can suffer from domestic abuse without even mentioning numbers, percentages, or women.

E.g. 'are you are man being subjected to domestic abuse?What would make it easier to speak out?' Or 'how witnessing domestic abuse in childhood affects men'
Or, 'the affects of domestic abuse on men'

What would make it easier to speak out?

People not jumping down your throat when you mention it?

You can make the point that men can suffer from domestic abuse without even mentioning numbers, percentages, or women.

What is wrong with saying that 1/3 of domestic abuse victims are men? Surely that encourages victims to come forward and shows that it's not just them that it's happening to? I can't see what's so objectionable in that.