Cafe wouldn’t let pregnant woman use toilet

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I’ve just ordered some breakfast for collection from a local cafe round the corner and had a quick flick through the reviews first. The most recent review is:

‘As a heavily pregnant lady went in desperate for the bathroom and they refused to let me use their toilet despite me being in tears and not close to anywhere else open. In a packed shop full of customers, they said no with no heart, no remorse, no feeling. Have never been more horrified, myself and my husband will never be using this place again’

I feel like it’s a bit harsh and the bit about there being nowhere to go close by is very untrue. There’s a Morrison’s maximum 5 minutes walk away with toilets. As a (second time) pregnant woman myself I wouldn’t get annoyed if an establishment didn't let me use staff toilets, I’d just find somewhere with public ones. The cafe gave a long response as to why they couldn’t let her use the bathroom. Mainly because their insurance didn’t cover customers in the staff area of the cafe and there were lots of boxes etc. laid about. If the pregnant woman had hurt herself then it probably wouldn’t have been good for them. They also said they managed to get the keys for the toilet in the opposite pub so it’s not like the reviewer didn’t get to use one. I think it was quite kind of them to go to the effort of making sure she used a bathroom.

Do you think she’s being reasonable or not? I think she’s being a bit U due to there being a Morrison’s so close by! (I’m not the cafe owner just interested in people’s views). My DM thinks they should have let her use it no questions asked purely because she was pregnant, I’m a little unsure

Just been for a holiday in Rome, interesting to see public toilets and toilets in fast food chains had coin operated turnstiles or numeric keypads. In the fast food chains, if you were a customer, either you scan the receipt bar code or enter the keypad number printed on the receipt. Sounds like a good way to avoid abuse.

If a woman who looks and says she is heavily pregnant comes in and asks to use the toilet and there is a toilet in building FFS which is easily accessible then just let her use it. What’s the fucking debate about?
Goodness me you can tell the Tories are going to win again in a few weeks from this thread can’t you. Geez. Happy Christmas!

@isabellerossignol

I think if they helped her find an alternative toilet then they did nothing wrong. It's not like they pointed and laughed.

Agree with this. The cafe did nothing wrong, and the woman is being ridiculous. As has been said, she obviously thinks she is entitled to use the staff loo because she is pregnant. I am sure there is no law in place that says everyone has to let a woman use their loo if she is pregnant. Does this mean that if a random pregnant woman passes my house, that I have to let her in if she needs a wee, and let her use my loo?!

Then again, this woman (and people like her) would find some reason to think they were entitled to use the staff loo - even if they weren't pregnant. Some people are just like that.

@KatherineJaneway

I worked in a shoe shop and we often got asked if people could use the toilet but we were told under n circumstances no. No customer toilet only a staff one upstairs and through the stockroom. Insurance said no customers so we had to refuse and some didn't take it well.

Some argued for far longer than it would have taken them to cross the street to the nearest department store.

Yeah this ^. As I said, some people are so entitled, and rant and argue so much, that they could have found another loo in the time they spent arguing and insisting they should be able to use your loo!

Although, as has been said, there really should be more public toilets for people in genuine need.

What’s the fucking debate about?

Whether an employee can choose to disregard policy?

Goodness me you can tell the Tories are going to win again in a few weeks from this thread can’t you

Their campaign of course being famously run on access to toilets.

As a few people have said, lots of these places have insurance that doesn't cover members of the public. And the fact that there was a Morrisons 5 minutes walk away, and it seemed they made a lot of effort to help her makes this all the more ludicrous.

If I saw that review (and their response,) no way would I not go to this cafe.

@isabellerossignol

Although I do think there should be some sort of system whereby councils give rates reductions or something like that to business who will allow the public to use their toilets. There just aren't very many public toilets available and it's very limiting for people who have bladder or bowel problems.

Yep this. Great idea.

I live near a little town - it's 10 minutes drive away from me, and that town and the other 2 that are close-ish (15-17 minutes drive each,) all have very little toilet facilities.

My little town has a small Tesco that has toilet facilities, and a little toilet block that is 2 minutes walk from the big Tesco, but in the main high street (15 minutes walk from the Tesco,) there is nothing. 50 or 60 shops in the high street,, and no public loos for 15 minutes walk. Except in Costa and 3 cafes there. But you have to be a customer/buy a drink or something to eat to be able to use it.

Costa has a panel on the door where you have to enter a 6 digit code that you get when you buy something, and it changes daily. The 3 cafes have their loos right at the back past the counter, so you can't really sneak past. There are half a dozen pubs but again, they don't like or want randoms using the loos if they're not a customer.

The other 2 towns I was referring to are similar. Only one set of public loos, and you can often be 15 to 20 minutes walk from them, and the cafes and pubs etc, don't usually like people using their loos and sometimes will refuse. So businesses and companies being given incentives to allow people to use their loo(s.) Or provide an extra one for the public.

Costa by the way, used to allow people in, but kids/teens kept going in there pissing about and causing a mess, so they locked them off. Can't say I blame them really. This is this the reason why most places refuse people, because of vandalism and theft. Not sure what to do about it really. The few really do spoil it for the many.

I do agree with the people saying there should be more toilet facilities, because some people do have conditions that mean they need the loo 5 minutes ago!!!

@Cam77

If a woman who looks and says she is heavily pregnant comes in and asks to use the toilet and there is a toilet in building FFS which is easily accessible then just let her use it. What’s the fucking debate about?
Goodness me you can tell the Tories are going to win again in a few weeks from this thread can’t you. Geez. Happy Christmas!

There was a staff toilet. Should the staff let a random stranger wander around in a secure area or abandon the customers and cooking food to accompany the woman?

I had severe mobility issues when I was pregnant with my second and couldn't have walked to the other place. I would have bought something from the cafe to use the bathroom

Okay. But that’s not therefore a business’ problem. Anyway there WASN’T A CUSTOMER TOILET. So whether you were able to make it to another one before wetting yourself or not is irrelevant. There was no toilet for you to use at the café.

I don’t get this ‘I wouldn’t have been able to make it elsewhere’ argument, it goes nowhere. If you’re outside a stranger’s house knocking and they don’t let you in and you won’t be able to get to another bathroom without peeing yourself that doesn’t change anything about your right to or ability to use that toilet (still in shock btw a PP actually banged on strangers’ houses to try use their toilet!).

You plan your trips to ensure you’re near a toilet, wear tena lady in case you don’t make it. You don’t have any other option. I don’t honestly understand how some people can be so entitled as to think that because they need the toilet for whatever urgent reason, they automatically deserve to be able to use any toilet within range. It’s really odd.

And as PP have highlighted, lots of members of the public just can’t be trusted to use a toilet appropriately and not leave it in a disgusting state. With public toilets and businesses that have customer toilets they’ve signed up to allow the public to use them and carry out the necessary cleaning, or pay for it. No chance would you want random people using a toilet that isn’t for the public/customers when you have no idea what state it’ll be left in. I’ve seen the state of some public bathrooms after people have used them, utterly horrifying. Shit left on the seat, blood on the wall (!?), urine on the floor and seat. And you can’t tell who is going to act like that based on appearances. It’s all very well imagining a scenario where you allow some lovely polite person a twenty second wee and they leave the toilet as they found it but people can be disgusting and given that you can’t control what someone uses the toilet for, allowing one person to use it for one ‘urgent’ reason means allowing the next to use it too and accepting you might walk in after to find it has been absolutely stunk out, blocked with a giant turd, stuffed with toilet roll, piss everywhere. Just no. Use public toilets or find a business that allows customer use (and be a customer).

Plus as another PP mentioned, I’d be more inclined to worry that someone who has such serious health issues as to be desperately urgently in need of a toilet seemingly out of the blue is more likely to leave some kind of explosive mess or might not manage to get everything in the bowl or might feel too embarrassed to take up more time cleaning it up properly...

I don't know how true this ' rule' is. But recently I was desperate for the loo. No public loos or supermarket ones.and not that heavily pregnant at the time (26w at the time)
I went into a cafe and asked if can use the toilet and I would be more than happy to buy a drink to take away if need be.
The guys reply was ' its the law that places aren't allowed to refuse pregnant ladies to use the loo so go ahead.'
now I'd never heard of this until then, but oddly someone else agreed when I mentioned it?

I always try to plan ahead but I have a weak bladder anyway, and now at 31 w.. I can't hold more than 5 to 10 min absolute max.. That's standing still god knows what I'd be like walking 5 min lol

The guys reply was ' its the law that places aren't allowed to refuse pregnant ladies to use the loo so go ahead.'

That sounds made up to me. I thought it used to be that pregnant women were allowed to pee in policemen’s helmets but I’ve no idea if that’s actually true.

In this situation, there was no customer toilet.

Depends - if it was toilets for customers - then yes.

However if it was staff toilets YABU as they do not have insurance for this, if an accident happened they would not be covered, therefore voiding their insurance & opening them up to be sued pretty heavily

I thought it sounded made up when he said it tbh.

There's some archaic old law about pregnant women being legally entitled to urinate wherever they want, but even if that is true, that doesn't mean they have to be allowed access anywhere. It just means they can piss on the pavement and not be arrested.

I am mid 60's and rarely need to use loos outside of my home even if out most of the day. I also don't need to get up in the night to go. Oh and my mum is 90 and also never needs to get up in the night

Well, that’s great for you and your mum. Big gold star and a round of applause. Meanwhile lots of others are not so blessed.

IMO though, if it is a cafe then it should have a public loo. (then equally she really should buy something).

IMO though, if it is a cafe then it should have a public loo.

Well, the law doesn’t agree with you.

I've had 3 babies, with spd each time that left me on crutches, and never been in this situation.

I was never in that situation either, mainly because of luck as the one time baby bounced on my bladder and made me need to wee now or I was going to wet myself I was standing outside some public toilets and ran/waddled in as fast as I could and just made it. That could have gone very differently if I'd been outside that cafe!

There were a couple of other close calls, but again I was fortunate enough to be near public toilets at the time.

Yes i thought you couldn't refuse a pregnant woman

Vulpine Refuse her what? To access private staff areas?

Nationally, cafes or takeaways with 10 seats or fewer don't need to provide customer toilets, but it depends on your individual council area as to what they allow

The problem is the situation is unclear. The ‘76 provision in law says any where serving food or drink to be consumed on the premises must provide toilets. Subsequent guidance says of it is only where there are more than ten seats. There has been a legal challenge to the situation in which the high court agreed that a premises can be forced to provide if they have fewer than ten seats. So, the National situation is actually that they should be provided but an individual authority can choose to follow the ten seat guidance if they wish.

Thanks to this thread, I know know I can knock on any random door if I need a wee or get a sudden attack of the trots; and be confident there is more than likely going to be a MNer who will happily let me into their home to use their bog, out of human kindness. I mean, what's sauce for the gander, right?

Thanks to this thread, I know know I can knock on any random door if I need a wee or get a sudden attack of the trots; and be confident there is more than likely going to be a MNer who will happily let me into their home to use their bog, out of human kindness.
You do know on MN nobody answers their door to strangers

@lynsey91
According to the NHS website, 14 million people have bladder problems and 6.5 million have bowel problems. That's 20 million. Population UK around 60 million (and counting...) to that's in 1 in 3.

You are very unusual in going every 5-6 hours. so maybe spare a thought for other people?

This includes people with cancer, IBS, Crohns, Parkinsons, MS, and men with enlarged prostates. My DH is fit and healthy but at 60 something has an enlarged prostate and needs the loo every 30-60 minutes.

Just because you seem unaware of these issues doesn't mean they don't exist.

When I worked in a Bonmarche shop as a teenager years ago we didn't have a 'public' loo but my manager told me to always let pregnant women use it as long as a staff member waited out side and then escorted her back to the shop floor.

I always thought it was a general rule since then but obviously not.

Nearly all. of the public loos in my town have been closed down in the past few years. I think there is only one in M&S and one in McDonald's now. All of the independent ones have gone completely.

Thanks to this thread, I know know I can knock on any random door if I need a wee or get a sudden attack of the trots; and be confident there is more than likely going to be a MNer who will happily let me into their home to use their bog, out of human kindness. I mean, what's sauce for the gander, right

I think you know that offering access to a private, domestic, loo is very different to having a loo in a public cafe (I know the one in the OP's case was a staff loo, I'm talking of the places that lock the customer loo so you have to ask for the key or code which puts off bone fide customers using it too) and then refusing access to it.

I always wonder how these cafe owners would like other cafe owners to react if they were out for the day with a toddler or a pregnant wife or an elderly/disabled relative - or just had a heavy period, and needed the loo and were refused.

@HoppingPavlova I am not asking for a gold star but just wonder why so many women seem to accept that being a woman and/or an older woman means you have a weak bladder. I am pretty sure it's not normal unless you do have a health problem.

I have thought of an eating place in my local town that has something like 8 tables outside, 2 inside and some high stools at a bar along the window. They don't have toilets.

I guess we are lucky in that our local town has 3 lots of public toilets, all kept pretty clean. Also toilets in Debenhams, M&S and McDonalds,

Then there is a Pret where I have seen people just go in and use the loss without buying anything.

Probably easy to use the toilets in the 3 Starbucks, 4 Costas and 1 Cafe Nero as I don't think any of them have codes on their doors.

I think there are far more public toilets in the UK than in a lot of Europe. France and Holland don't really have any and you have to pay in a lot of the shop and cafe ones