To tell newly vegan guest to bring their own dish on Christmas Day?

[GunpowderGelatine]

I'm hosting Christmas day at my house this year, not something I've done in ages. There's ten of us, including the kids, which is a great number - my plan, like every year I cook, is to order M&S food and pick it up on Christmas Eve then just bung it all in the oven and make some homemade gravy. I usually get a pork joint as I'm not a turkey fan, but will also be getting a turkey joint for my guests. I'm not usually the type to stress about Christmas dinner (it's only a roast after all!) but I also want it to be as simple as possible. One of my guests has declared they are now vegan. Which is a bit of a PITA for dinner if I'm honest as I'll have to sort a vegan main, gravy, dessert etc. I also have a nut allergy sufferer in the group which excludes quite a lot of vegan options as mains.

WIBU to ask the newly vegan guest to bring their own dish on the day or is that really rude? I've kind of planned the food around the size of my oven/hob and could do without the added stuff having to go in it (don't mind warming something up though)?

I am in two minds here.

On the one hand, this particular vegan guest seems pleasant and reasonable, and there's no reason to not bend a little for her. (Though as the OP @GunpowderGelatine has said, they have already sorted it anyway.)

On the other hand, DH and I do know some vegans. (10 in total.. 4 individuals and 3 couples.)

Over the past 3 or 4 years DH and I have been socialising with them, (they have only been vegans since 2015/2016,) we have constantly made an effort to cater to their vegan needs and wants and requests. Often spending extra money - quite a bit - to accommodate them and their dietary requirements. Yet not once have they ever catered to our needs. They never even get a carton of our (cow's) milk in.

They could even buy a microwave 'ready meal,' or a chicken pie or something similar, (that they can just chuck in the oven - or microwave.) But they never do. They always serve us with 'their' food. It never crosses their mind to cater to our food choices, even though we bend over backwards for them.

Whenever I have mentioned it to anyone on message forums before, I get told 'well you can eat what they eat, but they can't eat what you eat,' which is a cop out IMO. Just a carton of cow's milk and an oven ready cheese and pasta bake would do. Or a microwave chicken madras, with some naan bread. Instead, we get their soy milk, and dry nut roast, with tasteless veg, and dairy free dessert. There's more taste in snow than there is in the dairy free dessert they dish up for us.

I know some people will say 'but there's tons of vegan food you can get that is tasty and yummy,' but apart from beans (and a couple of other things,) most vegan food is dire. Just tasteless and bland. A few biscuits and the odd bit of chocolate that's vegan is OK, but the majority of vegan food is yuk IMO.

It's got to the point now where we won't have them around for dinner, because we no longer wish to cater to their vegan needs when they can't even be arsed to buy in a carton of our milk, let alone buy anything in for us that's non-vegan... And we no longer go to theirs. We have been asked a couple of times this past few months but have started to say 'no, we'd rather go out for a meal.'

And a few months ago, me and DH went to this particular person's house, (and she and her DP are both vegan.) We took our own milk for our coffee, and some mcvities chocolate biscuits, as we know they never have anything but soy milk in, and never have any biscuits at all.. Their face(s) dropped to the floor, and she said 'you brought your own milk and biscuits?'' with a kind of look. We said 'yeah, because this is the milk we prefer and these are our fave biscuits.. You don't mind do you? We brought you some bourbons that are vegan.'

She just gave me a frosty stare, and the atmosphere was so frosty, that we only stayed half an hour. We always buy soy milk for them, and biscuits that are vegan, and cater to their needs when they come round for a meal. (As we have done with all the vegans we know.) Yet, they don't even get a single biscuit in for us. Then she was arsey with us for bringing our own.

So anyway, whenever we socialise with the vegans we know now, me and DH say 'we'll go out for a meal' because we are not catering to them any longer when they refuse to cater to us in the name of their 'beliefs.' And as I said, we don't want to go to theirs anyway, as what they dish up is pretty tasteless.

I know this will offend a few people, but I take as I find, and IME, some vegans - not all - are self-centred and entitled, and want things all their own way.

That's sounds so annoying @user1490607838 - and I understand your annoyance.

I have limited experience of vegan substitute food (Linda McCartney sausages etc) and I have to agree with a PP I've mostly found it tasteless and dry. And I have had soy milk in coffee before - it does not taste the same as cow's milk in coffee (I'm a coffee snob though). I also once accidentally bought vegan cheese when buying those square slices (don't judge me but those bad boys are perfect on cheese on toast) and it tasted what I imagine a melted CD would taste like, with the exact same texture

As an aside I'm getting in celebrity masks for the table for people to wear (running joke in our circle) I am absolutely buying vegan guest one of Pam from Gavin and Stacey

they refuse to cater to us in the name of their 'beliefs.‘

That’s the thing, though. You clearly have no respect for their ‘beliefs’, you don’t see them as valid. I wouldn’t expect a vegan to cook me animal products any more than I’d expect to be offered pork in a Jewish household.

@user1490607838

The thing is that if someone is vegan for animal welfare or environmental reasons then they will not want to support the dairy farming industry by buying cow's milk or buy a chicken pie containing battery farmed chickens. I think that is understandable.

And with a bit of effort (and generally needing long cooking times to get the flavour into the food) there are some perfectly tasty vegan dishes.

However, I think your friends being cold with you for daring to bring milk to their place for coffee are taking it a bit too far.

(I am not vegan.)

My roasties are a legend! I roast them in rapeseed oil and everyone says they are the best roasties ever.

I want my guests to feel welcome and I love feeding them. This thread is full of great ways of doing just that, if the OP can be bothered. Goose fat is very overrated.

@GunpowderGelatine

That does sound annoying @user1490607838**

It was!

As an aside I'm getting in celebrity masks for the table for people to wear (running joke in our circle) I am absolutely buying vegan guest one of Pam from Gavin and Stacey.

LOL. That was bloody funny. Pretending she was a vegetarian and slyly eating meat Priceless!

@Alsohuman

That’s the thing, though. You clearly have no respect for their ‘beliefs’, you don’t see them as valid. I wouldn’t expect a vegan to cook me animal products any more than I’d expect to be offered pork in a Jewish household.

Yep you're absolutely right. I don't have any respect for their 'beliefs,' or their way of eating, because they have naff-all respect for me and any 'beliefs' I have or my way of eating. Why do their ways of eating trump mine? And although a few people have said 'it's against their beliefs to buy anything in that is dairy or meat,' it just pisses me off that everything swings in their favour, everyone has to cater to them, and pander to them (yes I said pander because that's what it is,) but they never give a single inch for anyone else. Like ever. Not even buying any flippin' chocolate biscuits in for guests.

And comparing having no pork in a Jewish household to vegans - is like comparing apples to pears. Jews just eat no pork. Vegans cut out massive amounts of food, and expect everyone around them to also eat that limited and very bland diet if they are catering for them at their (vegan) household!

Those same vegans - when you have them at your house, will expect to be catered for according to their vegan needs and wants and desires. Even though they won't give a MILLIMETRE, let alone an inch - when you are at theirs. Like I said before, they want it all their own way. They want people to bend over backwards to accommodate them, but will not budge a millimetre for anyone else.

What about vegans respecting MY way of eating? And the fact I eat meat/fish? Why do they think their beliefs/way of eating is more important than mine? Why do they think THEY should be catered for, but meat eaters shouldn't?

So no I don't have respect for such behaviour. They have their way of eating - fine - but they don't even buy a pack of biscuits in for us, and then piss and moan when we bring our own. They're that full of their own self-importance.

And don't even get me started on all the stuff they spout on twitter and instagram about their veganism. Weirdly, I have never once posted about how much I enjoy fish or bloody chicken

Like I said earlier, it's not all vegans, but some yes. Some are very entitled and want things all their own way.

@INeedNewShoes

I think your friends being cold with you for daring to bring milk to their place for coffee are taking it a bit too far.

Thank you. Yeah it bloomin was!

@GunpowderGelatine your friends must be rubbish at cooking if everything they make is dry and tasteless.

I eat vegan food quite frequently and have had some fabulous meals, and I'm not even vegetarian let alone vegan.

There are loads of delicious vegan dishes that are not dry or tasteless. If ever you are in Sheffield I urge you to eat at Make No Bones in Church Temple of Fun. I defy you not to enjoy it. Also check out Bosh on Facebook. Their recipes are fabulous.

I draw the line at plant milk though. I have tried them all, and nothing beats cows milk in tea IMO.

You sound deranged

I love mumsnet.

Jewish dietary restrictions are considerably more complicated than just not eating pork. www.thespruceeats.com/jewish-dietary-laws-2121753

What about vegans respecting MY way of eating? And the fact I eat meat/fish? Why do they think their beliefs/way of eating is more important than mine? Why do they think THEY should be catered for, but meat eaters shouldn't?

It’s not the same thing, you’re comparing apples and pears, not me. Vegans don’t use or consume animal products for ethical and moral reasons, the same as Jews and Muslims don’t eat pork for religious reasons. They don’t want their home contaminated with animal products, why should they?

You eat an animal based diet because you have no ethical standpoint regarding food. You’re not compromising your beliefs by providing vegan food but you are asking them to compromise theirs by providing and cooking chicken pie, etc.

What's the bet they get half way through the meal and start feasting on the pigs in blankets!! It's Christmas FFS

I don't think vegans have any ethical objections to biscuits, certainly not vegan biscuits anyway. That has fuck all to do with them being vegan.

Vegans cut out massive amounts of food, and expect everyone around them to also eat that limited and very bland diet if they are catering for them at their (vegan) household!

I don’t have limited diet and it certainly isn’t bland. Some people are crap cooks and eat rubbish food. Some of those are vegans but most aren’t.

Not even buying any flippin' chocolate biscuits in for guests.

The not having biscuits thing is a read herring. There are loads of normal biscuits that are accidentally vegan. I would have baked delicious cookies which are vegan.

What's the bet they get half way through the meal and start feasting on the pigs in blankets!! It's Christmas FFS

Do you think that people can't be vegan at Christmas?

Oops, sorry Gunpowder. My post was aimed at @user1490607838

PurpleDaisies I think some people can't think outside of a meat and two veg meal. They just don't have the imagination or culinary creativity to make interesting vegan food.

I'm not vegan but I'm sure every mince pie that I've eaten for the past 2 years has been vegan because that's how they tend to do some of them now and I don't look at the box fully when buying. They taste nice!

You could get a quorn substitute for them then not do the roasts in animal fat or do some in a different dish and they can have the quorn, all the veg and roast potatoes. I think you could easily pick up a a single vegan dessert too. So all you'd really need to buy is some quorn, vegan mince pies and a little dessert for them

Could the vegan guest come earlier and help to get their own food prepped and laid out on a single plate, so that it just needs microwaving? I feel that if people have chosen to eat a particular kind of diet, it's OK to ask them to put a little extra effort in and help out, particularly since the OP is already doing an awful lot for her guests.

I would just make the whole meal vegan and nut free and make the meat the 'add on extra'. Since you are buying it all anyway it will be easy to do.

Dunno about the OP but when I do a roast, a lot of things are sharing the same pan as the meat--I only have a certain amount of space in the oven and it also creates a nice flavor.

@Alsohuman

No way can you compare Jews not eating pork - to vegans (and the way they eat.)

Yeah I wouldn't expect to be given pork when I went to a Jewish person's house, but that is the only thing I wouldn't be given. I would be offered a multitude of other things. I would just not be given that one thing - pork, and that's fine because I don't like it. The chances are very high that I would be given something I like and enjoy if I ate at a Jewish person's house.

Vegans offer nothing except their bland vegan food. And people can sing the praises of how yummy it is/can be, but it's really not ! Not if you are a meat eater. I can't understand how a few people are not getting that.

A couple of the vegans I know have dropped it out a couple of times that they 'miss' Cadbury's chocolate, and they 'miss' trifle, and the fresh cream and custard in it.

And I know half a dozen people who were vegans, who gave it up after 3 to 5 years. It is a very hard way of eating to keep up for life.

As I said earlier, all the ones I know now, have only been doing it for around 3 to 4 years, and I am willing to bet a month's salary that they won't be vegans in 5 years time.

I wouldn't be a vegan for all the tea in China, and I will be glad when this 'trend' for being a vegan is done with, because frankly, it's tiresome and irksome (and so are some of the people partaking in it!)

@Ginfordinner

I think some people can't think outside of a meat and two veg meal. They just don't have the imagination or culinary creativity to make interesting vegan food.

Missing the point spectacularly. I don't WANT to make interesting vegan food. I have no intention of providing any vegan food again, seeing as how every vegan I know refuses point blank to provide any interesting NON-vegan food for me, because their 'beliefs' don't allow them to buy a microwaveable chicken tikka and a pack of chocolate biscuits.

Or do you think/assume that I should bend over backwards for them, while they give nothing back? No ta. I am not a mug. As I said, some vegans are breathtakingly arrogant and entitled.

Oh and PMSL at 'interesting vegan food.' I think that is what you call an oxymoron!

I have explained myself several times and I don't intend to repeat myself again. (and again!) but like several others, you don't like someone having different opinions to you, and refuse to hear anyone else's point of view.

I'm done here now. Not repeating myself over and over, and I am certainly not changing any of my views, just because they don't suit a few people, (and they don't like what they're hearing.)

Wow, some people on this thread are utterly horrible (and moronic honestly!). I'm not vegan but that is because I'm selfish, at least I admit it, rather than blabber on and on about how vegan food is awful (okay, we get it, you can't cook) and that my belief (what belief? that murdering other sentient beings is ok?) is more important than that of anyone who wishes to live a peaceful life the point in regards to vegans mentioning missing non vegan treats is irrelevant... people who go vegan for ethical reasons don't do it because they don't like the taste, they do it because to them, not supporting murder is more important than their tastebuds!

Glad you're catering for your vegan friend OP. I had a friend come to stay for a week, I'd done a BIG shop. She turned up on the day and when I asked her how she liked her lamb, she announced she was vegan. Frustrating of course as if I'd have known before I would have prepared, but I went out of my way because I care about my friend and her values. Obviously it's more difficult with your sisters allergy but fingers crossed the sausages won't cause any issues. Have a great Christmas (enjoy your potatoes )

God yes tell them to bring their own. An allergy is one thing but these types that expect people to cater for their 'wants' rather than their 'needs' are an absolute pain

Am not a vegan but I've had plenty of delicious vegan meals. Cant imagine developing a huge chip on my shoulder because vegan hosts haven't instead served me a shitty microwave curry.

are you illiterate as well as vegan?

Unfortunately for me, I know at least 3 people I can use this line with. Brilliant.

Also, it’s not always morally or ethically superior to be vegan. Most vegans insist that abstinence from consuming meat-based food and products is conscientious, kind, respectful, and although they might not say it, they think this makes them better or superior humans than omnivores. I know because I’ve asked them

The ethical and decent rearing of livestock, and their humane and respectful slaughter for consumption is - for me - part and parcel of the human food chain. It’s not a moral or ethical issue.

Animal cruelty and wasting animal products - having them die for nothing - is unconscionable. The damage to the environment caused by 7bn meat-eating humans is unconscionable. Being vegan salves an individual conscience but it doesn’t solve these problems. This planet cannot produce enough plants for all 7bn of us to be vegan, and all of humankind won’t ever abstain from eating meat. So it’s an individual choice. Like being teetotal, or monogamous. We are all free to choose it if we want, but we can’t look down on people who don’t because there’s no relativity here.

Mostly, though, in the vast majority of cases it’s jingoism. Given it’s almost impossible to be totally vegan in the West, it’s just a question of where you draw the line. It’s hypocritical drivel. I’ve all respect for people who say they don’t like the taste of texture of meat, or who say they can’t bring themselves to eat a cute calf or lamb. Have zero time for people who talk about the “ethics” of veganism.

Marmite and vitalite on toast. And side order of roasties. Job done.