To have said this to SIL re checking her DD's phone?

[weymouthswanderingmermaid]

My niece started year 7 this year. She's settled well, and is generally a well adjusted, well behaved sensible child. My DC's are younger and not quite at the smartphone / social media stage yet.
DN got her first phone when she started secondary school. Me and SIL we're chatting about DN yesterday, and SIL told her about several WhatsApp groups my DN is now on. Friends chatting and making social arrangements, and the like. I asked SIL if she was checking them / her phone is general, and she was horrified and said no of course not, she doesn't know her password anyway. I said that to would be sensible to check it every now and again, and to let DN that she would be doing so. To me, 11 is so young to have private access to WhatsApp and social media, and it's a parents duty to monitor it to keep the child safe and check for issues like bullying.
I explained that what I was saying was what i understood the general advice to be for parents, not just me being a snoop. I honestly did not say any of this in a judgemental holier than thou way, I was trying to be factual but helpful, iyswim?

But, SIL has not taken it well. She's seen it as both a slight against DN who "can't be trusted", and against her parenting, as I suggested she wasn't doing it right! SIL is a lovely, sensible woman and great mother. I really didn't expect that reaction

Bullshit and I meant perfect reason.

Even if you were checking every day, you could still miss the 5 minutes where your child sends something they shouldn't. Although you would know about it sooner rather than later, the damage would be done.
I still think it's better to set rules about contacts and privacy and teach your child never to engage with people they aren't already proper friends with irl and to build the trust where they come to you.

Ok you can roll your eyes @rubyroost. I am actually agree with you. but I can’t see how it will work when you’ve got teachers adding homework and notes to apps when the kids aren’t there so they can’t write it in their homework books. These are the same schools dishing out detentions because kids are missing it on the apps. But “there is no excuse” according to the schools.

I am not trying to come up with excuses as to why your wrong, as I say, I agree with you! But I just don’t see how it will work.

Ruby I was the perfect parent before I had any kids. It's easy to say you definitely won't do something, but faced with the reality of a child who feels socially isolated, you might feel differently one day

So far her phone has been nothing but wonderful for dd. She has social anxiety so it's much easier to keep in touch with friends on WhatsApp than managing groups face to face. I use the tracking app to make sure she's got to school ok and if she's making an impromptu library visit for half an hour after school I don't need to panic, I can see where she is without her having to constantly keep me informed. She takes fantastic photos using the camera phone. She plays chess on there during idle moments. She is in fact a damn sight more sensible and measured in her use than I am . In all the panic about the dangers of social media it's easy to forget what a great tool they are for kids flexing their wings independently for the first time.

I used to check who they were communicating with and had many talks about the potential dangers as did their school. However although I might have read the messages when they were 11 there's no way I would continue to do that until they're 18 or even 16 like some posters. It depends on the children but I know mine and they are sensible and I think invading their privacy would be uncalled for. It would also be pretty pointless as I'm sure that if parents start to do that that they will delete the messages anyway.

You lot arent listening... My child will not have a phone at 11 and phones are not required to do homework. Seriously?! Can't you understand that some people may choose to do things differently. And I know how secondary schools work, an app is not a requirement for homework and the schools would not have a leg to stand on if this was the case.

This article is about you.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/01/smartphones-children-technology-mobile-phones

Yep.

Ruby you aren't listening either. I find a phone positive for my dd. I don't care if others don't feel the same. But that article is not remotely relevant to DD. Her brother is a different question and I will rethink my strategy when the time comes. It appears hard to understand for some on here that others can be just as concerned and responsible a parent as you while making very different judgements about technology use.

Good for you @Ribbityrib, but the article wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the two posters who keep on saying how I will be diaadvantaging my child and exposing them to a lifetime of bmying. My child, my parenting choices. Your child and your parenting choices, but don't try and force them on me.

Bullying

@Ribbityrib Exactly! I agree with your last point.

Fair enough but there's such an air of sanctimonious judgement on this thread about those of us making active choices to do things differently. Irresponsible and naive are about the kindest.

@rubyroost I actually agree with you and if you read my messages you will see I am in agreement.
I just don’t know how it will work in practice, when you’ve schools handing out detentions making your kids feel shit as they missed something on the homework app because they haven’t got it.
You’ve peers making them feel shit because they missed out on a last minute trip out where the gossip of the century (or the next 5 minutes) happened.

You can say no all you want, they are still going to feel shit.

I’d love to do it, but in practice I just struggle to see it working.

Our secondary school now make parents shell out 300 quid for a Chromebook. It's supposedly not compulsory but kids who don't have one have to sign out a school one every morning and back in every afternoon! According to DD there is not actually anyone who doesn't have their own - god knows how some parents cope with the expense. All homework is set online. From a safety perspective it's pretty locked down, though they can chat with their friends on the system. So you won't necessarily be able to evade all internet-enabled technology for 11yos even if you want to. For good or ill, the world is no longer set up for analogue living.

But a chromebook at school is not a phone, neither is a computer or a pad/tablet. I will not be getting my child a phone at age 11, and I hope I'll be able to find a school that does not use computers all the time in lessons. Its lazy teaching in my opinion and it's proven that children learn more when writing due to the way we process information.

@rubyroost - I have read the article when it was published. I actually agree with a lot in it. I do think it is very black and white though. My experience is that there is a ton of grey inbetween.

Unfortunately society is very different and it is hard to be the one who stands out.

A phone does not mean DD has unlimited access to everything and parents do not have control over what she sees and does. We are at the moment the worst parents in the world as we make her handing her phone over at bedtime, an ungodly hour of 8.30pm (light out is 9pm). We also check browsing history on the ipad when she had it for a while and there are quite strict rules about what she is allowed to watch on Netflix when she is on her own.

I am not sure how old your children are. All the best in finding alternative schools, we find the use of technology very helpful in learning, DH is working in IT and sees the advantages of people with good skills. Saying that DD is more into hands-on activities and most likely will use a pitchfork instead of a keyboard as an adult if she goes into animal caring which she currently thinks of.

Sounds as though she's taken it the wrong way OP but you're absolutely right, parents should check. Last year my aunt had not been checking her 13yo sons as he's 'model child' however my younger sister noticed some cryptic odd messages on his public Instagram story and comments on pictures, she checked his phone and was horrified to see he'd been sending nudes to girls... I say girls, who the hell knows who they were!!! Cue long talks about internet safety and she now has all his passwords and access to his social media apps on her iPad too. You just can't be too careful. It would be lovely to think that the world is full of nice people but unfortunately on the internet you just don't know who you're talking to. Better safe than sorry

In what way is a tablet really any different to a phone? It's not as if young people actually make phone calls any more. His dad and I are the only people ds has ever called on his!

@reluctantbrit theres lots of schools round here that don't insist tablets etc are used in lessons. And tablets/computers are very different to phones. You don't carry them around in your pocket 24/7 for a start

Its all hyperbole though isnt it..dd doesnt carry her phone 24/7, after school and weekends it rarely leaves the kitchen. Its like there is no possible middle ground between kids being glued to their phones 24 hours a day desperately trying to download unsuitable material and contact nefarious persons unknown, or having totally big brother supervision - or indeed no phone at all. In reality theres all sorts of solutions, depending on the child and their level of interest. As i said, i wish i could be as restrained in my phone use as dd. Not every child that owns a phone is obsessed with it.

Massive hyperbole you can give an 11 year old a phone and set limits so they're not on it 24-7. A child in this day and age in secondary school with no phone will be massively socially disadvantaged.