To have said this to SIL re checking her DD's phone?

[weymouthswanderingmermaid]

My niece started year 7 this year. She's settled well, and is generally a well adjusted, well behaved sensible child. My DC's are younger and not quite at the smartphone / social media stage yet.
DN got her first phone when she started secondary school. Me and SIL we're chatting about DN yesterday, and SIL told her about several WhatsApp groups my DN is now on. Friends chatting and making social arrangements, and the like. I asked SIL if she was checking them / her phone is general, and she was horrified and said no of course not, she doesn't know her password anyway. I said that to would be sensible to check it every now and again, and to let DN that she would be doing so. To me, 11 is so young to have private access to WhatsApp and social media, and it's a parents duty to monitor it to keep the child safe and check for issues like bullying.
I explained that what I was saying was what i understood the general advice to be for parents, not just me being a snoop. I honestly did not say any of this in a judgemental holier than thou way, I was trying to be factual but helpful, iyswim?

But, SIL has not taken it well. She's seen it as both a slight against DN who "can't be trusted", and against her parenting, as I suggested she wasn't doing it right! SIL is a lovely, sensible woman and great mother. I really didn't expect that reaction

It’s strange to see a debate about the reasonableness of checking how 11 year old children are using the internet on their incredibly powerful personal computers. We should be debating why we’re giving them phones at all.

It's a hard one, I think if you have to check a child's messages and social media it shows they're too young to have it in the first place.

My daughter is 13. I check her phone most days. I have told her I do that. She says "none of my friends have there phones checked" . So I said I'm sure they do they just probably haven't told them they do.

DD only got a phone with the strict rules that a) we always know the password and b) we do check if we have any concerns.

When she got WhatsApp we changed rule b) to "we can check any time what kind of groups you are on and what is going on".

In reality we don't check each day but on a fairly regular basis. DD openly talks about the groups she is on.

In my opinion age rules about SM is good but the reality is that without access to WhatsApp you are a social outcast in DD's school. So we have to keep an eye on it. WhatsApp can go out of hands, there is currently a drama evolving within her friendship group and unfortunately things were told on the chat which damaged a lot.

A diary is totally different and I don't check DD's notebooks. A diary is what you aren't able to/don't want to talk to friends/parents on a public chat.

WhatsApp can go out of hands, there is currently a drama evolving within her friendship group and unfortunately things were told on the chat which damaged a lot.

Unsurprisingly.

Wise point made about teaching kids that this stuff just isn't actually private. Good lesson for them to understand it's not a diary and if they want privacy they have off line conversation

I work in a school in a safeguarding role.
I could retire tomorrow if I had a pound for every time a parent has told me they don't need to check their child's phone because they have such a great relationship, they've "always kept the lines of communication open", DC tells them everything, it's all about trust etc. and I've then had to burst their bubble by showing them something disturbing on their child's phone they were not aware of. I'm talking about good kids from stable, loving homes in the majority of cases by the way. I've also had many parents tell me their DC "isn't even on social media" when we know for fact that they are, and if they checked their phone they would know this.
IME parents seem to be increasingly reluctant to put boundaries in place when it comes to technology. In some cases this is because they simply don't understand the technology, so they don't have a clear understanding of the risks involved. It's amazing how many parents I talk to don't realise that WhatsApp is social media or that their DC can he contacted by people they don't know on online gaming platforms. But in many cases it's because they're too concerned with trying to be their DC's "friend".

@Rubyroost it's not about not trusting the child. It's about the fact they are kids learning how to navigate all of this.

For example my son didn't know about leaving what's app groups until I showed him how. We discussed the etiquette around this - when it's ok, when it might upset a friend etc etc

When they were babies/toddlers we took them to baby groups to learn how to socialise. Now we are guiding them through phone usage.

I have no delusions my son is far more tech savvy than me and will get to the point where if he wants to hide stuff he will be able to. But hopefully I don't intrude and he won't want to.

@churchandstate agree completely with what you say. I won't be getting my secondary age child a phone, no matter how hard people say that will be. It really is simple, they won't be bought one.

Rubyroost

It’s a direction I think we all need to take. We are not safeguarding our children adequately when we provide them with full access to the internet and to one another via social media, IMO, at ten or eleven years of age. It’s quite obvious.

I'm curious about how any parent can keep checking a phone if the child doesn't consent. What stops the child simply changing the password and refusing to reveal the new one?

What are the options after that....taking the phone from them by force?

I suppose it could be a discipline issue after that like any issue - time for coming in, for example.

Teenagers are hard! I thought that about toddlers, but this is a different game.....

I check my 12 yo dd’s. She has no interest in WhatsApp or other social media and mostly her texts are exchanges of silly sayings. She knows if she ever changes her PIN there’s trouble.

BetterAlone

By the time you’re having to wrestle the phone off your child because they refuse point blank to give it to you, you’ve completely lost control and they have no respect for you.

I think not giving them a phone even at secondary is a dumb idea. Sooner or later they will have enough money (about £30) to just get hold of their own smartphone, or they will use their friends whenever they get the chance, and you will have lost the opportunity to guide them and teach them safe usage as it will all be hidden from you.
It sounds like refusing to let your dc learn how to cross the road, knowing that at 16 they can be off crossing dual carriageways without you.

My DD is 12 my DSD is 11. I don't check their phones regularly but I have access to their passwords etc.
They are both very open with me though.
DD told me when her friend was thinking of meeting up with someone she was chatting to online.
She also told me that middle aged, Asian men kept trying to add her on snapchat. She doesn't add anyone she does not know.
DSD is not as into social media but she has Watsapp and has told me regularly when things have been happening I'm group
Chats that she isn't comfortable with.
They don't have Facebook but do have Instagram. They very rarely post.

hopelesssuitcase

Again, if your child hears your decision that they are not allowed a smartphone and buys themselves one anyway, you’ve lost control and they have no respect for you. The thirteen year old isn’t in charge.

@BetterAlone - easy. Phone and all other electronics will be gone, I pay the contract so that can be cancelled. DD would get a flip-phone style phone which can phone and text.

At that point you have lost control anyway so if your teen is mad you have bigger problems on your hand.

Phone, like any other internet able devise, has to have rules. Ours is that nothing is in the bedroom after bedtime. If it is, privilege is gone for a week. It happened once, DD learned the hard way that we parents are parents and not her best friends. It helps if you as the parent shows some restrains as well.

@Rubyroost - in my opinion a phone is necessary as soon as a child is getting independent. How would your child contact you if there are problems? I wouldn't be able to say where the next public payphone is.

Nobody needs the latest smartphone but we found that any old style phone definitely means your child is an easy prey for bullying unfortunately and looses out on social interaction. DD has groups not just for her form and friends but for some school subjects where they are in sets, her scout group, drama class. They use WhatsApp like others do email or in our childhood the landline.

I may not like it and do try the best to make sure DD understands that technology is a tool not the only answer to life's problems but time has moved on.

@ReanimatedSGB of course our DC are not our property, unfit us our responsibility to keep them safe. I'm heartened by the posters on here who are either involved in safeguarding, or have had talks from CAMHS and the police about the importance of checking your child's phone.
@Rubyroost and @churchandstate it's just unrealistic for a secondary age child not to have a phone. I want to ensure my DC's can contact me and I them, and also participate fully in activities of which communication via phones/ groups is the norm. I'm shocked by the number of primary age kids who have phones, but at secondary it's necessary.
And if my child refused to give he their password, it would be taken away and replaced with a plastic flip phone.

it's just unrealistic for a secondary age child not to have a phone. I want to ensure my DC's can contact me and I them, and also participate fully in activities of which communication via phones/ groups is the norm. I'm shocked by the number of primary age kids who have phones, but at secondary it's necessary.

It’s not unrealistic at all. It’s a choice you make.

And if my child refused to give he their password, it would be taken away and replaced with a plastic flip phone.

As demonstrated by this. If your child could manage with a plastic flip phone, they don’t need a smartphone.

Of course it's a "choice". It's a choice that will exclude your dc from a lot of social interaction at school however. Classmates won't phone you up they will use group chats etc and you can't do that on a non-smart phone. It's also my choice to get my dc a bike, redecorate their bedroom, buy them clothes that they like when I can afford them. The fact that it is a choice doesn't mean it makes you a great parent to choose it. I would repeat, is it not better to give your child a phone while they are at an age when you can monitor what they do and encourage responsible use, rather than wait till they buy their own at 16 and are instantly plunged into whatever social media they choose to use.

Our DS knows that as long as we are paying his phone bill we will have access to, and check, his phone.

Minimum age for WhatsApp is 13 so OPs SIL has already proved that she has low parenting standards IMO.

The fact that it is a choice doesn't mean it makes you a great parent to choose it.

We all have our own ideas about what constitutes good parenting. The point I made was simply that phones aren’t inevitable.

I think you need to be careful with stuff like this, as it is a criticism of her parenting, even if you are right.

My kids know i can check their phone at any time, although i dont tend to do it that much, unless their attitude makes me suspicious