To have said this to SIL re checking her DD's phone?

[weymouthswanderingmermaid]

My niece started year 7 this year. She's settled well, and is generally a well adjusted, well behaved sensible child. My DC's are younger and not quite at the smartphone / social media stage yet.
DN got her first phone when she started secondary school. Me and SIL we're chatting about DN yesterday, and SIL told her about several WhatsApp groups my DN is now on. Friends chatting and making social arrangements, and the like. I asked SIL if she was checking them / her phone is general, and she was horrified and said no of course not, she doesn't know her password anyway. I said that to would be sensible to check it every now and again, and to let DN that she would be doing so. To me, 11 is so young to have private access to WhatsApp and social media, and it's a parents duty to monitor it to keep the child safe and check for issues like bullying.
I explained that what I was saying was what i understood the general advice to be for parents, not just me being a snoop. I honestly did not say any of this in a judgemental holier than thou way, I was trying to be factual but helpful, iyswim?

But, SIL has not taken it well. She's seen it as both a slight against DN who "can't be trusted", and against her parenting, as I suggested she wasn't doing it right! SIL is a lovely, sensible woman and great mother. I really didn't expect that reaction

[Graphista]

“I work in safeguarding and if you're not checking your children's phones you're naive at best, foolish most likely, and damned negligent to boot.” Totally agree with this!

I have worked with secondary age children in a voluntary capacity over many years and raised a child to adulthood myself.

It’s a strange combination of arrogance, naivety and ignorance I think of parents that don’t check.

It’s NOT like a diary at all, these are essentially public writings, if you’re the only person in your child’s circle NOT seeing what they’re saying and doing online you’re not parenting them.

Ime it’s the kids who’s tech/online activity that isn’t checked get into the worst strife.

For me it was a condition of dd having a smart phone that I was paying for. Checked regularly but at irregular times if that makes sense?

Led to the discovery she was being bullied WITHIN her friendship group (mean girls type situation) and our sorting that out (not easy but would have been so much worse if I’d not known. The worst culprit her mother didn’t give a shit what her kid did online or elsewhere!)

They are still learning how to handle such things, banning them altogether ime also just kicks the can down the road, dd has a few friends who weren’t allowed smart phones until they were 16 BUT were then given pretty much free rein on use and that caused all sorts of hassle inc one girl who possibly narrowly avoided a kidnap/rape/murder scenario!

They need to gradually and with parental guidance learn how to navigate the world of online interaction and social media so that that stay safe and also so they don’t cause harm to others.

The girl that was giving dd grief it didn’t start as overt bullying but envy/competitiveness which went unchecked and escalated. Kids don’t necessarily have good control/temperance over how they behave online - hell a lot of adults don’t! Lot easier to be brave and bolshy behind a screen than in person (this girl wouldn’t have dared speak to dd irl as she did online!).

Just as we teach them road safety with our oversight and guidance and not by either just letting them get on with it OR banning them from crossing roads alone until 18 we also teach and guide on other aspects of safety.

I have a very open and honest relationship with my dd and always have, far more than many other parents and it’s been commented on favourably by several others, but when the situation with her ‘friend’ arose she didn’t say anything straight away as at first she thought perhaps she was misunderstanding what was being said and that she was ‘reading too much into it’ which is normal we see similar threads on here all the time, then I did a check and we started discussing it all. Difficult situation to navigate and in hindsight I wish I’d escalated with the school far sooner than I did. It was just maddeningly subtle and done in such a way that certain comments could be viewed negatively or positively.

“At least twice I helped DD's friends in tricky situations where they had lied to their parents and did not dare tell them the truth.” That sounds like you overstepped to be honest

[CalamityJune]

Of course they need checking regularly. This is complete common sense.

Kids are really good at talking the talk about online safety. Less good at walking the walk. It's very easy to trust someone or make a temporary lapse in judgement that can have massive consequences.

I used to be horrified by stories of explicit images of children being shared and laughed at among their peer group. I used to hope it would never happen where I worked. It did and does, more often than many parents would think. All of their parents thought their kids were sensible and savvy too.

Parents have a responsibility to be all over their child's social media use and to be very familiar with all apps their child uses. I'm always shocked at how many parents still think teenagers use Facebook as a primary social media, or that Snapchat is just about funny filters.

[churchandstate]

Kids are really good at talking the talk about online safety. Less good at walking the walk. It's very easy to trust someone or make a temporary lapse in judgement that can have massive consequences.

Spot on. I knew as a teenager that alcohol was bad for me. I just didn’t know how bad. I knew unprotected sex was risky. I still had it. I didn’t think of myself as a band person, but I could be unkind to others.

There is no intellectual exercise that will prevent your children from placing themselves at risk, 100% of the time.

[CripsSandwiches]

Most DC who have parents who check their phone just delete anything they don't want their parents to see. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to do it anyway but the parents who check and are saying it's irresponsible not to are fairly naive if they think they're actually learning anything. Much more effective (although much more difficult) is actually making your DC feel comfortable talking to you. If they want to hide things from you on their phone or otherwise they will. It's not a bad idea though to make sure they don't have their phone with them all night too.

[churchandstate]

CripsSandwiches

What’s more likely, though, that your child will get into trouble despite your checks, or that they will get into trouble in the absence of checks? IMO, if you’re daft enough to give a 12 year old unlimited access to the internet, you’re not a responsible parent and you should probably do a course.

[JustDanceAddict]

I checked at that age but haven’t for a long time at ages 15 and 17.
Tbh when I did check I never found anything untoward, but def stuff I didn’t particularly want to know at that point.
When there was a minor bullying incident I checked dd’s Phone w her knowledge and could see it was another girl stirring the pot.
I used to look at dd’s When she left it lying about - only incoming messages mind!

[Poppinjay]

the parents who check and are saying it's irresponsible not to are fairly naive if they think they're actually learning anything.

The point is that you pick up these situations before they get to the point where the child thinks there's something they need to hide from you. These children usually think they're talking to someone else their age and everything is fine.

Of course they can hide things but that doesn't justify not checking. Keeping a positive, communicative relationship is realyl important too nut it isn't a substitute for checking social media accounts.

Proteccting children from this kind of bullying takes effort and thought. When you do safeguarding training, you're asked to think like an abuser so you can do everything possible to keep one step ahead of them. This is what we need to do as parents.

It isn't naive to do everything we can as parents to keep out children safe. Not bothering because it might not be 100% successful would be neglectful.

[Greggers2017]

@churchandstate how ridiculous. Not every child vapes or dienks alcohol. The majority have phones. Your argument is completely irrelevant.
Kids are mean it's a fact of life. I give my dds
Phones because that's the norm. They can be trusted so why not?
I have seen kids bullied because they haven't got phones. How are they supposed to arrange to go out with friends or social evenrts or talk about home work?

[churchandstate]

Your argument is completely irrelevant.
Kids are mean it's a fact of life. I give my dds
Phones because that's the norm. They can be trusted so why not?

It’s entirely relevant. I don’t care how many people do something I consider to be fecking stupid - it doesn’t change the fact that I consider it to be fecking stupid. Smart phones for 11 year olds are - in my opinion - fecking stupid. And because nobody else is my child’s mother, I get to make that call for myself.

If my child needs to call or text someone, she can do it on my phone until I think she’s of an age when I can trust her with a phone. End of story.

[peanutbutterkid]

Parents don't need to get involved in smaller issues

Who defines 'need'? Some want to police a lot.

I guess my view is skewed because I did lots of drugs, vandalised without hesitation, shoplifted, lamented my virgin state (I was 13yo). Of course I won't be surprised if DC do the same. As things stand, they wouldn't dream of all that.

IN meantime, DD's 13yo mates, their parents flip out if their daughters are rude to someone. Or exchange texts with someone who uses 4 letter words. Or starts a slapping game with another child (both mutually consenting & laughing in a public spectacle show off to peers way). Or have a 'boyfriend' (that status means a bit of holding hands & adoring texts & no encounters off of school premises). I know the same girls started drinking at 14 but not sure if any of their parents know...

I can't even get out of an armchair to worry about any of that. Are those "smaller" issues? At least one of those situations threatened to blow up into a big issue, but because the origins were above types of 'forbidden' activity the kid dare not even tell the parent about it.

[Rubyroost]

@Greggars2017 😂😂. Gosh I don't know how on earth can they maintain a social life without phones. I mean God, I must have had no friends when I was a kid.

[peanutbutterkid]

ps: I actually suspect DD will be a control freak who will follow the MN prescribed ways of monitoring her DC own closely. Meanwhile, I'll be the listening granny the DGC come tell truth to.

[churchandstate]

And actually, as it happens, I don’t want my child having a banging social life at 11. I want her to have a few good friends, and I want her to do her homework and do sports and spend time reading and with her family. I have zero interest in whether or not her school friends are all bullying each other on WhatsApp - she won’t be.

[TheHootiestOwl]

As adults we take risks all the time and not necessarily in the best judgment. Why are we expecting our children to behave differently? We can educate them, talk to them, of course, and we should.. But they think they’re invincible. Children are trusting.

I’m sure as hell I’ll be checking my children’s phones (when they’re old enough to have them), it doesn’t have to be strangers contacting them, friends can be part of bullying and self harming/taking an overdose pacts. They egg each other on. I have seen children come in to hospital having tried to kill themselves because someone on Instagram told them to, and yes it can be their friends. And because it’s funny . Again, they think they’re invincible. We’ve seen the naked pictures, the texts, the bullying, the grooming. I’ve heard about who is contacting them and who’s trying to get them to meet up. I’ve had children aged 11 telling us about their ‘boyfriend’ that lives abroad and how they’re going to visit them! Yes, some random stranger they’re chatting to online.

To be honest I find it fucking terrifying that my children are growing up in the world now where this is the norm.

[Baker1985]

My 11 year old just started high school an to right I check his phone he has all these new mates an getting added to groups were there's people he doesn't know on them. He's a good lad an would tell me if anything concerned him but hell am still checking for meself. He hates it but knows I check ya phone or u don't have it till ya older

[reluctantbrit]

@Rubyroost unfortunately the old bullying line is very real, we had this until Summer term of Year6 when DD was the only one who had a phone but not a smartphone.

It was a social disaster and a huge sign of how society evolved. You may be lucky and your children’s school is different but DD had the year of hell until we gave in. While phones had to be handed in during school time it meant DD had lost friends due to the fact that they preferred WhatsApp to texts and belittled her that she had no access to whatever on the way home.

Yes, it is the parent’s choice what to do but it is important to take your child into account

[Aderyn19]

I don't think anyone here isn't monitoring what their children are doing. I know who my DC are talking to, what apps are being used, ensured the privacy settings are on etc. But some of us feel that reading a child's private messages is not the way to go. It's not about trying to be our children's friends - I am well aware that I am their parent. But I want my DC to trust me and not feel they have to hide things from me.

[Rosebel]

My children are secondary school age and had phones from Y7. They need them to keep in touch so they can let me know if they're going to be late home or need picking up from somewhere.
I check their phones regularly and will do until they're at least 16. I trust them totally and have a very open relationship with them. However I don't trust other people.
Parenting advice never goes down well but I think your SIL will regret being so naive /trusting.

[Ribbityrib]

Aderyn exactly. DDs phone is locked down, she can't install or download anything without my knowing so she's hardly going to be able to set up a secret Instagram or Snapchat account. She mentioned to us that the cross-class WhatsApp groups had some unpleasant things on them so we've all agreed she comes off those. She knows the dangers of chatting to strangers and all her settings are locked to private. Just because we don't read all her messages between her and her friends doesn't mean we are somehow letting her loose in the internet wild west without any supervision.

[Rubyroost]

@reluctantbrit do you know what of people are that shallow they're not worth being friends with. I certainly won't be buying a smartphone for my child in year 6 🙄the world has gone mad and I and my child won't be joining it.

[refraction]

Thoughts on this

[Ribbityrib]

Refraction thats a very powerful post. It mirrors what this psychologist says here about the effects of snooping on your childrens texts www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/thinking-about-kids/201702/no-mom-you-cant-read-your-daughters-diary-or-texts
If there is a particular reason to believe my child is caught up in something nefarious and out of her depth, then i reserve the right to invade her privacy. But in the normal run of things, her conversations with her friends are none of my business. (Not that i wouldnt dearly like to know what gets said )

[churchandstate]

Ribbityrib

Well, I would generally agree that snooping on your child is likely to have an adverse effect on them. I wouldn’t have liked it as a child. But there was nothing for my parents to snoop on because my friends and I had not been furnished with the means to communicate at all hours and whenever and for however long we liked, coupled with the ability to involve the whole world in our conversations. So the issue never came up

I am inclined to say that when there is no reason for me to snoop on my child’s conversations because I know she is mature enough to manage them herself, she can have the means at that point. Then I will never need to snoop.

[IdiotInDisguise]

Refraction... that post brought some painful memories, my mother used to read (and mutilate) my diaries, to the point I stopped writing. She never did anything to help me deal with the problems I was experiencing apart of judging me and strongly demand I took the things off. To this day I don’t tell ANYTHING to her and our relationship is distant.

I do however have a kid who did something very dangerous when he was 10 (think of it of it as extreme selfie) and posted it in instagram, if the father of his friend, who also was in the selfie, had not been checking his son’s Instagram, they would have just continue putting themselves in further danger without anyone of us being aware of what they were up to.

So it is a difficult decision to make. My son’s Instagram account has nearly 500 followers but he has apparently not posted anything on it since his previous account was deleted. I suppose he is now using Instagram for “texting” and moved all his social life to snap chat, effectively shutting the door on me.

[yasle]

Minimum age for whatsapp is now 16 not 13.

SIL is very naive unfortunately. Checking an 11yos phone is essential and advised by our school via esafety parent education.

Her 11yo might be very sensible and well behaved. But she isn’t an adult and she still needs parenting from an adult.