To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

I’ve noticed that too, GlitchStitch. It’s kind of an up yours to the Jewish community. Though really it should bother everyone. Somehow, while all other kinds of racism are universally abhorred, antisemitism is seen to be a problem for Jews alone. It’s good to see that people are starting to notice on here.

British Jew here.

I don’t think Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic towards individual Jews, but I certainly think he holds very troubling views about Jews as a collective.

For me, he’s just done so many things that make me feel extremely on edge in this country.

His comment about Zionists not understanding English irony was a huge one. That made me, and so many of my friends and family, feel like he was saying we will never be truly English in his eyes.

I also think he’s far too willing to sit down with people who murder Jews. That makes me fear a Corbyn foreign policy.

And Luciana Berger’s speech when she left the Labour Party made me cry. She experienced such awful racist abuse and Corbyn never stood up for her.

nor accusing Jews of using the blood of Christian children to bake bread, are examples of anti-Semitism

Oh this was in response to a post I wrote. Corbyn was full of praise for the person (Raed Salah) who says things like this. That’s ok, said the poster, Raed Salah was only using it as a metaphor. Genuinely appalled at the mental gymnastics this poster was willing to do in order to try to get Corbyn off the hook.

(It’s on the thread about anti-semitism linked to upthread.)

OP if you want to not just know about examples of antisemitism in the Labour Party but understand why it’s become an issue due to Corbyn’s (and the left’s) world view of splitting the world into countries that are Western Imperialists and those that are oppressed by Western Imperialists, this talk by Dr Dave Rich given at the House of Commons in December 2018 really helped me.

soundcloud.com/user-771239343/antisemitism-and-the-left-dr-dave-rich-house-of-commons-december-2018

It’s funny that nobody can ever give examples of Jeremy Corbyn actually being antiemetic himself, and some people only seem concerned with antisemitism in the Labour Party. There are plenty of time Jeremy has supported Jewish people though, that doesn’t seem of interest to these people. twitter.com/toryfibs/status/1193163297157197830?s=21
Neither does the support he has from many Jewish people
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-antisemitism

It’s funny that nobody can ever give examples of Jeremy Corbyn actually being antiemetic himself

People already have. On this thread. Do keep up.

Jammy under Corbyn's leadership what had been in the margins before, became mainstream. It became acceptable to use anti-semitic abuse. Just today I saw a video of a Labour party meeting in Bradford (linked on another thread) where 'Jew!' was being shouted as an insult. It's now everywhere in the party - it's been allowed to flourish. Where other leaders stamped it out, Corbyn has condoned it. He has repeatedly refused to expel perpetrators.

The labour party also refused to adopt the international definition of Anti-Semitism. They left bits out and watered it down. This was a scandal but didn't get much coverage at the time.

Margaret Beckett spoke out against it and other things but like many Jewish Labour politicians she has had to leave the party. Look up what she thinks if you want an intelligent opinion on this.

It’s funny that nobody can ever give examples of Jeremy Corbyn actually being antisemitic himself

Here you go:

The time he said that Jews cannot understand English irony, despite having lived here all their lives.

The time he defended an antisemitic mural.

The time that he allowed a heavily pregnant Jewish MP to be bullied out of his party by antisemites, and he did nothing to stop it.

The time he tried to take the word ‘Holocaust’ out of Holocaust Memorial Day.

The time he wrote the foreword for a book that claimed Jews are evil and control all finance - in his foreword Corbyn describes this book as ‘brilliant’.

so many new candidates with awful track records of anti-Semitic tweets, statements etc that you'd think the labour party are deliberately seeking them out to stand.

They are trying to appeal to the Muslim vote. It is shameful.

Neither does the support he has from many Jewish people

*From a minority of Jewish people. And by the way, choosing only to listen to the very few members of an ethnic or religious group that agree with you is tokenism.

And tokenism is a form of racism.

Ergo, you are a racist.

Perhaps you should ask his friends in Hamas and Hezbollah?

He also has a lot of Jewish support ie the group Jewish Voices for Labour

OP, be aware that Jewish Voice for Labour is part of the antisemitism problem within Labour according to Jon Lansman, founder of Momentum. He also claims that some of its members self-identify as Jews to attack other Jews.

When I tried to point this out on another thread, I was accused of antisemitism, so I will use Jon Lansman, who is Jewish, to point it it. Attached is part of a letter he wrote.

I was wondering that too, JammyGem. Did a whole pile of racists join the party when Corbyn was elected leader? If not, they were already there? Is it like Brexit where it was not PC to say stuff, and now people think it's more acceptable/they can get away with it?

The other thing I was wondering is if there are a whole pile of racists, why is it particularly anti-semitism? That's a general question, as I would have thought anti-semites would be generally racist too. Can't see why you'd be discriminatory about your discrimination.

"Somehow, while all other kinds of racism are universally abhorred, antisemitism is seen to be a problem for Jews alone"

And it also seems normal/acceptable to dismiss or minimise when Jews talk about the anti semitism they have themselves experienced or witnessed, to a far greater degree than would be accepted if people were so casually denying "other kinds of racism" (for want of a better terminology)

As a white woman, for example, I would never dream of pronouncing that reports of racism are exaggerated, or that it isn't as prevalent as people believe - and deny people's lived experiences of being on the receiving end of it!

Yet people who aren't Jews will happily deny the extent of anti semitism even when it's right there in front of their eyes (as this thread will no doubt prove).

I have been a lifelong Labour supporter but in all conscience, cannot bring myself to vote for them now (leaving aside the Self ID issues!). It's actually very depressing as well as upsetting. Labour - for the many, not the Jew.

What I don't understand though is that it seems that anti semitism is within the Labour party as a whole, and the racist members are not new, so why is it JC who is taking the flak if previous Labour leaders had the same approach? Or did they deal with it and I've just missed that?

This is exactly what I’d like to know. The reports are always of ‘deep seated Antisemitism’. I’m sure the likes of Ken Livingstone have been knocking around the Labour Party for years and years, why was the press not onto them then? Why has it not become an obsession of the daily mail to expose Antisemitism before Corbyn’s leadership? Because they were too busy mercilessly bullying the last Jewish labour leader?

And it took me so long to type my post that LoungeLizard very helpfully provided a very easy to understand and obvious example of what I was trying to say!

Anti semitism has always been on the fringes of the party, it’s on all parties but Blair and Brown and even before them didn’t enable it. There’s just no way that this would have happened under either of them, they would have acted appropriately. That may have many faults but neither of them are anti Semitic or have any evidence of enabling it within the party.

This is my conundrum too OP. I am a local councillor for my area who is a long standing Labour member. I did not agree with Jeremy Corbyn as our leader and am uncomfortable to say the least about the way the party is now run.

However I cannot agree with other parties stances on several policies and am now left considering leaving the party to be an independent councillor. However this doesn't ease the dilemma over the election as we know that it is a 2 maybe 3 horse race.

Do I gamble on Tory ineptitude meaning that too much chaos cannot be done by the time of the next GE or vote for a party leader I do not agree with or want in higher office or vote Lib Dem and hope that a coalition government will be agreed that can sway to the middle ground?

Some of his best friends are vile anti-semites, especially the "Stop The War" crowd.

If you need someone to explain to you that a mural featuring hook-nosed bankers and masonic illuminati symbols might be anti-semitic, then you are part of the problem and not the solution.

Then when you're caught laying a wreath at the shrine to the murderers of the Munich Olympics and respond with some guff about how you were present but not participating, you've probablyy lost the benefit of the doubt.

if there are a whole pile of racists, why is it particularly anti-semitism?

There’s a particular obsession with Israel by those on the left. Obviously the government of Israel has done some awful, awful things which should be utterly condemned, but the for the Left, other governments doing awful things don’t attract nearly as much attention.

There are plenty of people who are also anti-Israel who are deeply antisemetic. Corbyn has shared a platform with a few of them.

Anti-Israeli sentiment can easily slide into antisemitism. Accusing Jewish MPs of being funded by, or secretly working for Israel is one obvious example.

We had a loved long standing MP resigning recently due to growth of anti semitism in the party.
She is NOT the only one by far.

We shouldn't in any way tolerate this.

Even if he's not actively anti-Jewish himself, he's certainly turned a blind eye to those who are.

It's interesting how people can't vote for "anti Semite" Corbyn but aren't so fussed about misogynistic, Islam mocking, racist Tories.

It's interesting how people can't vote for "anti Semite" Corbyn but aren't so fussed about misogynistic, Islam mocking, racist Tories.

Other parties are available.

I think there's antisemitism in Labour but no more than in the general population. I don't believe Corbyn is racist but I do believe antisemitism is being weoponised and used as a slur against him. There are lots of right wing Jewish people. There are also lots of Jewish Labour supporters who are campaigning hard for JC.

The Tories have a problem with islamophobia, Reece Mogg shares antisemitic tweets by German far right groups, Windrush. Why is that not being amplified?