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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To get SO SO SO angry about P&T spaces....

254 replies

Wilkie · 19/08/2007 17:53

I know, I know it has been done to death but honestly, some peopl are just fucking pig-ignorant.

Pulled up at Asda at the same time as a roughish middle aged couple, two P&T spaces available, I pulled into one, they pulled into another. Another car drove past with a young couple in and a tiny baby, looking for a space but obv couldn't park there as we had just taken last spaces.

Middle aged couple got out, stared at me as though to say 'so?' so I said 'I take it you have invisible children then??'

He said 'yeah actually' and sauntered off.

TWAT.

OP posts:
UnquietDad · 21/08/2007 14:48

There is another point to them, which is that they are widely-spaced. If you have a baby or a toddler to get out of a car-seat and intom a pushchair, you can then place the pushchair safely in the blocked-off section between the cars, rather than in front or behind.

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 14:55

Excuse me unquietdad, but when that other geezer came on here, what was his name again? Him that just wanted female company, you welcomed him alright! In fact I was jumped on for daring to question why a childless male would want relationship advice from a parenting forum.

And as a mother, I'd be more than happy to park at the other end of the car park and walk to the supermarket. The only reason supermarkets have these spaces is because the majority of shoppers are mums with kids, so they will do anything to get those potential customers through their doors. It's just a marketing ploy.

fatslag · 21/08/2007 14:56

Seems to me that Whiskeyandbeer is touching on the whole "Should parents be subsidised?" debate - a far wider issue than p&t parking spaces. Believe me, WaB, we know all about the debate because (shock! horror!) we all were once CHILDLESS!

As for parents being subsidised, yes we all agree that parenting is a personal choice. However, it's hard work at times even if very rewarding, and if there were absolutely no incentives to do it, no doubt some people wouldn't bother. As it is, we are producing our kids later and later to give everybody a chance to have a career, save some money to buy an overpriced house and surprise surprise, many couples when they finally decide that the time is right can't conceive because you can be as modern as you like but you can't cheat mother nature and the dwindling fertility rule.

Just to state the bleedin' obvious, our kids will be paying everyone's (parents and non parents) state pensions and bus passes tomorrow. Fewer kids means higher pension contributions and taxes for everybody.

So when I was childless I used to fume at paying higher taxes on the same pay as colleagues with kids. I live in France and the system POSITIVELY ENCOURAGES procreation with huge tax breaks and generous family allowances and, incidentally, has the highest natality in Europe apart from possibly Ireland. As I was saying, it used to make me mad that I was paying for other people to have kids, but the bottom line is that someone has to have them.

So I suggest immediate implementation of the French system in the UK, i.e. no preferential parking for families with young children but huge tax perks and 200 quid a month just because you've gone to the trouble of reproducing

Wisteria · 21/08/2007 14:57

mmm - I suppose but at a supermarket don't you always use the trolley anyway? I don't know, next we'll have 'people over 18 stone' parking spaces for the same reason!

I don't mind them being there and would never use them myself now, but do object very strongly to those that feel they have a right to disabled spaces if the P&T are full which I see happening an awful lot.

aloha · 21/08/2007 14:58

I am wondering if W&B came here via one of those anti-parent sites - you know, the one gatecrushed by numerous pissed Mnetters a little while ago

aloha · 21/08/2007 14:59

the idea that parents are somehow given all these wonderful perks makes me hoot!

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 14:59

personal choice? I never had a bloody choice! I didn't choose to be a parent, it was an accident.

Perhaps that is why I sympathise more with childless people, I don't think the world should revolve around children. Most of the time they are ghastly little beasts that should be discouraged from all public places!

aloha · 21/08/2007 15:04

I don't get the antipathy towards parents. If you hate kids so much, you should be down on your knees with gratitude that some other poor saps are reproducing so you don't have to. You can get on with spending all your money on yourself, partying until the small hours, travelling to wherever you want on a whim in June or April or whenever you like that's cheap, never picking up toys, getting fat and pregant, paying university fees, wiping up baby mush, changing pooey nappies, and STILL have people to empty your bins, perform your knee replacements, staff supermarket checkouts and wipe your arse when you are 80.

OrmIrian · 21/08/2007 15:09

I don't get it either aloha. Or at least I recognise it as I was a little like that pre-kids, but I find it amazing that any non-parents actually have the gall to admit to it. Nasty, dog-in-the-manger attitude.

Saturn74 · 21/08/2007 15:12

"I am wondering if W&B came here via one of those anti-parent sites - you know, the one gatecrushed by numerous pissed Mnetters a little while ago".

I was wondering a similar thing, Aloha.

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 15:12

There is an anti-parent site? Oooh, can I join?

whiskeyandbeer · 21/08/2007 15:20

i don't have antipathy towards parents/children nor did i come from an anti parent site.
and i'm not trying to go down a should parents be subsidised route.as i understand the whole economic and social benefits of giving tax benefits and government perks etc to families.
i was simply questioning wether a private company should be allowed to sell a product only to parents with children and wether the government should pay for it, seeing as it increases the profits of a private company. and unlike tax credits etc i really fail to see it having a wide ranging social benefit for the country at large.
as i've said before i'm not against p&t spaces if they are on a private companies land. i mean it's their land they can do what they want for all i care, they can cater to race, religion, family, size, hair colour etc because they own the land and will do whatever they think will increase profits. i was simply questioning an earlier suggestion that the govt should fund these spaces for the parents.

fatslag · 21/08/2007 15:22

Sorry should have said "parenting is a personal choice except for those who got taken unawares and victims of immaculate conception". Oh blimey, if I don't get flamed by the anti-parent lobby or the single-parent lobby, the fundamentalist christians will get me!!!

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 15:24

welcome whiskeyandbeer! If you look at my profile (click on the book symbol to the right of my name) you will see my lovely children and you may comment on their beauty.

Soooo, do you come here often?

Wisteria · 21/08/2007 15:29

truly beautiful - bet you get lots of flattering comments at Sainsbury's!

UnquietDad · 21/08/2007 15:34

rhubarb - I don't remember the other guy, to be honest. But if he wanted relationship advice I can sort of see the purpose of coming here. But if I didn't have children I wouldn't even be aware this place existed - wouldn't even be on my radar.

aloha - I love your post of 15:04:47 so much! I'll paraphrase that as my "stock answer" for the future...

FioFio · 21/08/2007 15:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 15:37

I wish I could remember his name. His girlfriend had an early miscarriage and they split up. He came onto Mumsnet saying that he wasn't looking to salvage his relationship but wanted to chat to mums. He posted all this in the Lone Parents topic.

Wisteria · 21/08/2007 15:38

I remember him.

Wisteria · 21/08/2007 15:40

Satyricon

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 15:46

That's the one!
Where is he now eh?
Whiskeyandbeer?

aloha · 21/08/2007 15:49

Thanks UD!
I sometimes wonder if the anti-parent brigade have ever tried to visualise a society with no children born from now on. What a bleak, horrific place it would be. And I don't just mean sentimental guff about no tinkling laughter, but everybody getting old, all infrastructures breaking down, and in the end, just a few old people living without hope or anyone to help them or care for them, just waiting to die while eating stockpiled tins of beans (and praying your can opener doesn't break, as nobody's making any more ).

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 15:51

At least you'd be able to have a quiet pint in the pub with no screaming kids around!

And no children's telly! What joy!

You see, there are positives in every situation.

whiskeyandbeer · 21/08/2007 15:54

your pretty much talking about "children of men" which was a fairly bleak portrait of what it would be.
can i just stress, i'm not anti-children by the way as some seem to have suggested.

WanderingTrolley · 21/08/2007 15:55

A society with no children in it would leave me out of work.

In the loveliest, fluffiest way, I need people to go off and procreate.

Rhubarb, your children are quite striking.

I need to go lie down now....