To get SO SO SO angry about P&T spaces....

[Wilkie]

I know, I know it has been done to death but honestly, some peopl are just fucking pig-ignorant.

Pulled up at Asda at the same time as a roughish middle aged couple, two P&T spaces available, I pulled into one, they pulled into another. Another car drove past with a young couple in and a tiny baby, looking for a space but obv couldn't park there as we had just taken last spaces.

Middle aged couple got out, stared at me as though to say 'so?' so I said 'I take it you have invisible children then??'

He said 'yeah actually' and sauntered off.

TWAT.

Take away all the 'connextions' the government set up, there's your funding!

You wouldn't need proof and paperwork, it could just get printed out when you register the birth. As a tear off bit like the Bounty Pack thing on the certificate folder.

Anyway, what annoys me most about tw*ts parking in the P&T spaces is not the fact that they're parked there per se, it's the disregard for "rules", the rudeness it implies and the general inconsiderate behaviour. Happens all over the place more and more.

and slashing tyres, keying cars and blocking in people whose spouse's are dying is not rude at all (or barking mad of course).

Why would the govt or council be paying for the funding of it, when they're a marketing thing offered by shops?

Remember though NotADragonOfSoup, some people don't feel parents are worthy of certain extras so after displaying your badge you would probably come back to your car and find the tyres let down by some jealous bitter person who got a ticket for parking in M&T without a badge! Envy is never an attractive quality.

"and slashing tyres, keying cars and blocking in people whose spouse's are dying is not rude at all"

Eh?? Where did I say that? You'll notice I said "Happens all over the place more and more."

'parents are worthy of certain extras' PMSL. what? Like a blue peter badge?

I was thinking the same thing?

To OP. Yes YABU with regard to P&T spaces. It really really doesn't matter.

However that particular couple were very rude and unpleasant and probably would have been so whatever the situation. So you woulsn't have been unreasonable to be angry with them although I personally wouldn't have given them the satisfaction.

Parents with very young children that should have been.

The thread last week, we had people slashing tyres (mainly of blue badge holders who had parked in P+T rather than disabled), cars have been keyed, and the best one of course was the mumsnetter's uncle who, on his way to hospital to see his wife who had been involved in an accident, had pulled into a P&T spot at a garage to get out of the way of a car waiting to fill up l. A mother (with no kids with her at the time) blocked him in after shouting at him (although there was another space free) presumably to teach him a lesson. By the time he got to hospital his wife had died.

It doesn't bother me whether i get a P&T space because i will quite happily walk from the back of the carpark if needs be, i do hate it when people say 'i couldn't do my shopping because there were no P&T spaces so i had to go home'. That's when you wanna slap them in the face with a wet fish and say get a grip.

It's not the fact that i wanna park at the front of the carpark or i feel i have more rights then a disabled person to park in P&T. That's certainly not the case at all. It's the attitude of people nowadays that annoys me the most, the 'i can and will park where i like' attitude. The couple that the op was talking about just sums up the attitude of todays society and that is 'pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest!'

In France they have notices above the disabled spaces saying "You can have my space if you take my handicap". Suggest something along the same lines "You can park here if you take my toddler... pleeeeeeezzzzeee!"

Studentmum... in Spain last summer I heard that a heavily pregnant woman with high blood pressure had been fined 500 euros by a cop for sitting on a bench reserved for the disabled (or elderly I can't remember which). Surely a reasonable motive for going down to the station with a machine gun?

Thanks btw pixel. Yes I wondered whether the will would increase with buttons and voices rather than velcro..... I might see if there's some sort of library that we can borrow one and try.

Oh and back to parking. I don't think a badge would make the blindest bit of difference since people are happy to ignore disabled bays, especially in wet weather. And presumably it would just ake people more territorial over the parking space. Blue badges aren't free btw (just renewed ds1' and had to pay).

"if your parked in a M&T bay without a valid badge you get fined."

but they are not legally enforcable. they only appear on private property (e.g. supermarkets).

easy answer......ditch pt and t spaces.

aside from the badge thing, i agree with you. Clearly society isn't kind and considerate enough for P&T spaces so ditch them.

While I think it's OTT to get so upset about a parking space (though PMT can make otherwise rational people deranged about anything ) and I'm sure all the extreme reactions are the exception rather than the rule. On the whole I think P&T spots are a good idea. Why shouldn't supermarkets organise their own car parks for the benefit of their customers? Children are more at risk in car parks than adults because they are small, cannot easily be seen by drivers and are often impulsive. Car parks are basically roads. The whole point of the spaces being near the shop is to minimise the amount of time the children are around traffic. I certainly get quite stressed sometimes with my five year old with Aspergers and my two year old dd (who sometimes runs if you let go of her for a moment). I do appreciate being offered those spaces, though I don't get hysterical if they are full.
This is turning into a classic Groundhog Day parking space thread though.

I hate people who park in P&T spots
Don't get so wound up/yeah, me too
I always park in disabled spots actually because I deserve it
THREAD GOES MAD!

Children are not the same as adults. They have specific needs. It follows that their parents and carers also have specific needs.

Society should be able to cater for the needs of children without having some sort of metaphorical aneurism.

This is not to suggest that having children is as demanding as having a disability, or that parents should be afforded the same level of help/consideration as people with disabilities.

But we can all, surely, agree that consideration for society's more vulnerable members is a good thing? Can't we??

Or should everyone who isn't young and able-bodied just stay at home and bolt the doors?

"Children are not the same as adults. They have specific needs. It follows that their parents and carers also have specific needs."

but absolutely everyone in soceity has specific needs on the simple grounds that we are all individuals. so yes of course it may follow that the parents of children have specific needs, what i don't understand is how it follows that these specific needs deserve to be met above those who don't have children?
having children is a choice, the burden of which should be met by the parents.

Agree whiskey. There are already more P&T spots in supermarket car parks than disabled bays.

I don't agree with the safety thing either- I find them some of the most dangerous spots in the car park because they're full of peolpe with mad glints in their eyes circling round waiting for one to come free. Far safer to park at the back, away from the traffic and grab a trolley. The safety thing only really becomes an issue with more than one child anyway, so perhaps they should be parent plus 2 yougn children under 5 spots.

whiskey - children are more vulnerable than the average able-bodied adult, on the grounds that they are small, weak and have absolutely no common sense (I am talking about little kids here). I think that a decent person, and a decent society, should place the needs of more vulnerable people before the needs of less vulnerable people.

thats fine and all.but these spaces aren't really for the safety of the children are they? ok i can agree on the point of children who can get away from their parents and run across traffic that argument at least makes sense. but what about parents with children who can not walk yet and need to be carried.or children in buggies. they are not going to run out in front of traffic and don't even know or care about being close to the supermarket or their parents struggling to fit everything in the doors.
should parents with babies whocant walk be allowed use these mother and child spaces? how are they protecting the vulnerable? as far as i can see they are there for the comfort of the mother. but as i've said before i have nothing against these spaces as they are on private land being run by a company who know their target market. so fair play to them. i am just baffled by some peoples suggestions that they are a right/should be legally enforced/ should be available in public car parks.

I prefer to park further away from the store and take up 2 spaces (loads available!).
I used to drive a 2 door sporty coupe(Nissan 200sx) and you couldn't see ds sitting in the back, used to get lots of dirty looks when pulling into a P&t space, it was great!!
I would very slowly get out of the car...and surprise!
I try not to use them if I have to tbh.