To get SO SO SO angry about P&T spaces....

[Wilkie]

I know, I know it has been done to death but honestly, some peopl are just fucking pig-ignorant.

Pulled up at Asda at the same time as a roughish middle aged couple, two P&T spaces available, I pulled into one, they pulled into another. Another car drove past with a young couple in and a tiny baby, looking for a space but obv couldn't park there as we had just taken last spaces.

Middle aged couple got out, stared at me as though to say 'so?' so I said 'I take it you have invisible children then??'

He said 'yeah actually' and sauntered off.

TWAT.

In all seriousness if it's so much bother to take babies to the supermarket, why not shop online, or get a friend to mind the baby whilst you shop.

Oh FGS, no sane person suggests it's impossible to go shopping without P&T spaces, just that they make life easier. They have nothing to do with disabled spaces and anyone who sees them as the same kind of thing is just, well, a bit dense really. I thing the toilet/microwave analogy I used before kind of sums it up for me really.

I think it's really weird for people to say they hate them. What is there to hate? Use them if you need them, don't if you don't. It's also weird for people to be so obsessed by them; feel like like they deserve them and want to do bad things to childless people who park in them.

I really, really, think the answer is for them to be further back. The real benefit of them is the space, not to open the doors but to put the trolley down the side so one toddler is safe whilst you put the other in the car. If they were further back but against a walkeway, they would be less likely to be misused.

Lastly, I agree with Aloha. I think it's a sad reflection on society that those of us without children feel resentful over what they perceive as 'perks' for parents. So what if it's a life choice? What is so wrong with society supporting people at what is difficult time (being a parent to very young children)? What does it say about us when we don't subscribe to the theory of collective responsibility.

You are completely right about them being further back solving all the problems for the disabled and other car park users - agree with you.

I agree with w&B- the spaces are in private car parks, why on earth do we want councils issuing badges etc- they can't even manage the essential paperwork they already deal wtih (see my head through the window thread for personal experience of this). I don't see w&B's posts as being anti parent- just wondering (as do I) why anyone would want to increase the administrative burden on councils who already barely function for some sort of marketing decision by the supermarkets. They're not going to pay for it, they're there to encourage parents (with big shops) to shop there, not because they really give a stuff about people getting into their store. OUr Tescos says they're there for people using pushchairs. How many car drivers use pushchairs when shopping. Heck the stores don't even know why they're there.

homemamma I hate the way they make people behave. Agree chuck em at the back, next to a walkway and sanity might be resumed (they'd be safer as well- I don't know any next to walkways they're just close to the store in a crazed 'must park as close as possible' zone).

Otherwise- internet shop. Got to be easier than getting stressed over the 'right' to a parking spot.

Some good (childless) friends of mine admitted to parking in P&T spaces because they percieved it as unfair that people without children had to walk further! Have looked at them in a rather different light since!

Obviously providing P&T spaces is just a courtesy to try and get families as customers just like baby feeding and highchairs in cafe's. It's not legally enforceable but a bit sad when people take the facility who have no need of it.

I have severely dented an adjacent car when a gust of wind caught the door while I was putting DS2 in his seat.

must go and get telly off before Night Garden startes and bedtime delayed by half an hour!

I wonder if people would feel the same about people without kids barging into feeding rooms in, say, John Lewis, and reading the Daily Mail for hours because 'it's not fair that people with babies get comfy chairs and we don't'? Would we say, 'fair enough' or 'selfish wankers'?

And I honestly do not think they make people behave badly. I don't know of ANYONE who has taken a disabled spot because they exist. the kind of person who does, would take a disabled spot anyway.
Most people just think, 'Oi, that was offered to me first, and when I didn't have kids, I didn't use them', just as they would if non-parents were sitting in the feeding chairs in JL.

Agree with that grannyslippers- but that's why they should be in a safe zone (dedicated walkway) further back. I don't think this perceived 'parents have it so easy and have so many concessions' (nor do I thnk its true) helps anyone, but I don't think insane behaviour surrounding P&T speaces disabuses anyone of the notion either

blimey alohoa you missed the tyre slashing (of blue badge holders 'illegally' parked in P&T spots) thread then, along with the blocking in of an elderly man and of course winesteins own mirror knocking lunacy - winestein- you were forgiven by me many many years ago - when you first talked parking- PMSL- see ddn;t miss you out that time

And the massive number of ridiculous threads does kind of suggest it makes parents lose all sense of proportion. Bin the bloody things. I like parking in them, but I'd give them up to get rid of these threads.

Ah, but never ever confuse MN with Real Life
In RL women go 'grr...selfish white van driving bastard' and park elsewhere!
YOu do see the nutty side of life here.

i remeber coming back to car after doing shopping, massively pg and with toddler in tow. car next to me had parked so close i couldnt get my huge bump through to open the doors. ended up waiting around next to car with ds2 whingeing for almost an hour. was dying for a wee too but didnt want to leave in case they came, moved car and someone else nipped in lol!

Actually, I bet on one of those mad anti-parent site, someone is saying, 'I always go into the mother and baby rooms at JL to read my paper as they have comfy chairs and it is my RIGHT to use them." Except that they would probably vomit LIttle Britain-style at the sight of breastfeeding.

yes well the tyre slashing incident involved 'the fuzz' turning up and certainly sounded like fantasy; a regular though. UNfortunately the blocking the elderly man in was true, and was the one of the most awful things I;ve read on mumsnet.

Indiasmum, pmsl (so to speak). I had a similar experience, though was just pg, no kids. Literally couldn't get in my car! My Sainsbury's has a Starbucks, fortunately, so had a latte and a muffin and read the paper until someone moved.

LOL! i have just replied to your post on the steiner thread aloha!

Gess, I see stuff on MN that is so extreme. I suppose that's what keeps me addicted!
Of course taking disabled spots is utterly scummy, but I am really convinced that the kind of person who'd do that would do it anyway and is looking for an excuse. I'm really disorganised and have anarchic, risk-unaware children who run so am v v grateful to have parking near the store. I really do get quite anxious with them in car parks.

Hi Indiasmum!

Liek I said yesterday, why not just make all spaces wider in general, or make them diagonal spaces, there are a couple of car parks I have been to and the spaces are diagonal, always seems to be more room!

[smug at recognition of loon status]

Loopy - I could answer that, but I have started to bore myself

I just used to find it hard to get from the car to the shop/trolleys with two babies both of which couldn't walk yet. Struggling with the kids and my bag and all the bits and bobs was abit stressful so to be in a P&C space would have been nice.
I don't get hung up about it though. Certainly wouldn't park in one if didn't have kids with me.

Ey up - this thread has taken off since last time I checked!!

Am calmer now - have got over my PMT.

Reading all the comments I think the main issue for me is:

The P&T spaces are useful. If one is available then great, if not, I do tend to park at the back of the carpark where there are more spaces. I don't drive around until one becomes available.

What really gets my goat is when someone without a child parks in them. That is just plan laziness. I agree, they are not a 'right' of a parent, and indeed I can cope without one but it just galls me that people think, 'bollocks, I haven't got a kid but I'll park here anyway cos it is near the front of the store'. That is just plain selfish and rude.

An as for disabled parking when you are clearly not disabled, I just hope you never need a disabled space you ignorant fuckwits.

zzzzzzzzzz

LoveAngel - why do you keep coming back to this thread? Clearly you revel in the fact that you 'don't give a toss what people think' about you parking in disabled spaces when you aren't disabled.

You're just making yourself look a twat.

Maybe ask SparklyGothKat or another genuine blue badge holder if you can spend the day with them?

.....then again, you 'won't give a toss'.