Would I get done for defamation?

[InnisandGunn]

So, some of you may remember my previous post regarding a police investigation against a friend who sexually assaulted me twice. One whilst asleep, thinking I was drunk. And again when I was blind drunk. All whilst our friends we're sat around. We've gone through the correct channels, I've waited 18 months and the case has changed officer. It transpires the case has been handled horribly and it's looking as though it won't even get put through to CPS. We have a means of getting deleted Facebook messages that would provide irrefutable evidence, but the police won't do it 'because it's not a murder case'. I'm absolutely gutted. No wonder sexual offence conviction rates are so low.

My AIBU is, if this doesn't go anywhere, can I plaster the whole thing everywhere? Well maybe not do that, but post to Facebook about it? He's a school teacher. He's most likely done it to another friend. God knows how many others whilst he was at uni. He has a 16 year old girlfriend. And he gets off, as though nothing ever happens. I can't tell the school, I can't go ballistic at him. I've sat for 18 months and waited, all for it to be ballsed up.

I want everyone to know what he's really like. So I intend to post on Facebook with a very accurate description of him, whilst not actually naming, and describe what he's done to me. Would this be classed as defamation? Reading online it says it's only a crime if what you're saying isn't true. Well I know it's true, he knows it true. All our friends know its true. His parents and my parents know it's true. Yet his parents continue to lie to the police. Can I be done for defamation if I go off on this war path? I just need to do something. I need to somehow attack him back. Make him feel how I feel.

@yellowallpaper. I have read what you have written but you don’t understand how the legal system works. The male here does not have to prove he is innocent. OP has to prove to a high legal standard that he is is guilty of what she has claimed. If the CPS don’t think based on the proof that she has that they can get a conviction she is extremely unlikely to win a libel case. The balance of probabilities test in civil litigation for libel is not 51/49% as some on this thread appear to think. For an allegation of this nature, OP would have to prove to a judge that the likelihood of the claimant having assaulted her is 90-95%. That’s a higher threshold than CPS are looking for to bring a prosecution so OP would be unwise to recklessly proceed to libel this man on social media

I feel your pain, my case is 17 months on and still hasn’t been passed to the CPS, it got closed and I had to fight for it to be reviewed, they have medical evidence and everything of serious injuries and still nothing gone to the CPS.

I contacted The Centre for Womens Justice (advised via the feminist board here) and they have been instrumental in helping. They are also looking into the stupidity of the CPS and police managing of data downloads so may be interested in your case.

Contact them here

www.centreforwomensjustice.org.uk/

And I always say they are a charity, so any posters feeling flush do support them, they have been a lifesaver for me

Katrina. I do understand the legal system. We can only go on what the OP says and she says she has proof and witnesses, therefore the prosecution has to discredit that evidence. I didn't say he had to prove his innocence but if he can demonstrate her evidence isn't true (eg with a solid alibi that he was elsewhere) then he will prove his innocence by default.

Neither of us know why the CPS decided not to pursue the case or if it was even put to them, OP says it was mishandled by the investigating officer. We simply don't know what happened behind the scenes.

On reflection though, it probably isn't a good idea to put this on SM because people can lie, change their minds, not want to get involved etc and leave the OP high and dry.

One thing's for sure, he will get a good solicitor via his teaching union and frankly, OP may be on the road to nowhere without similar representation.

I wanted to do this to my sister who created elaborate Facebook hate campaigns against me, which culminated in a public claim after bumping into me in my kids playbarn that she could ‘have me removed from the premises because of the order in place’.

There was no such order. She was insinuating that she had a restraining order or similar against me, because a few days before I had asked the police to visit her where she was issued with a PIN notice.

The claim was horrendous and defamatory so I sought further police and solicitor advice.

The police advised me that you can write anything you like on your own Facebook Wall, even set to Public viewable, about someone as long as it’s not considered ‘hate speech’.

But if you wrote about someone on a Facebook page or group other than your own personal Wall, that’s set to Public viewable, it’s an offence and repeated instances count as harassment, which is criminal.

The recipient of your vent can take you through the civil courts for defamation, but I was advised by my solicitor it’s not worthwhile because it’s so expensive, thousands rather than hundreds, and ‘clearing your name’ is pointless if the person victimising you with false allegations is so intense in their attack, most reasonable people will understand already that their claims against you are dishonest and vindictive.

I’ve only read your opening post so apologies if I’m off target with your query, but I hope it helps with how Facebook works.
The policeman was a dedicated online harassment advisor and knew his stuff. I don’t know if every force has one.

@yellowallpaper you clearly don’t understand how the legal system works in this context sorry.

The OP would be the defendant in the libel case accused of being a liar. She has to prove she is telling the truth. Having some evidence which doesn’t meet the CPS standard to bring a prosecution is really unlikely to cut the mustard. The male does not have to call any rebutting evidence If he doesn’t want to. He can cross examine the OP and cast doubt on her story that way or just argue it’s her word against his and she doesn’t have sufficient corroboration to meet the burden of proof.

I have defended people more than once in trials like these. I am telling you and OP from first hand experience and many years of practicing as a lawyer that libel trials of this nature are not conducted in the way in which you and others are describing

I'm 5 years into a civil litigation case as the plaintiff, so maybe this is colouring how I'm seeing the OPs position? Not libel incidentally!

Yes libel is completely different to almost all other kinds of civil litigation - different procedures, reversal of burden of proof and different standard of proof. It’s a real speciality area of law and even most qualified lawyers wouldn’t know chapter and verse if they didn’t work in this field.

By corollary though I wouldn’t know where to start with a family or employment matter so it’s all horses for course.

5 years in litigation sounds gruelling!

@katrinawaves
Is it possible to pursue him through civil action for damages or is that just an American thing?

With any luck it it should be completed in another 3. Gruelling isn't quite the word I'd use 😀

@yellowallpaper 8 years! That’s real Jarndyce v Jarndyce stuff.

@Frenchw1fe - possibly but if OP didn’t meet CPS threshold for prosecution (which is that a conviction is “more likely than not”) its also unlikely she would be able to convince a judge of the merits of her civil case for assault.

Thanks for all the help guys. In honesty, the more I've thought about it today, I'm wondering how much longer I can let this take over my life. She says, downloading 9KB of Facebook data in an attempt to find deleted messages 😂 I'll fight until the end before it goes to CPS. After that, I think I may have to just ride it out and move on. I'll see though.

Best of luck whatever you decide.
Fight it but keep it in a area of your mind if you can. Enjoy your DP and DS along the way.
Don't let the cunt take over. sorry for the symbol I hate the word cnt but he deserves it

16 and he's a teacher?? For the love of, report him. Im a teacher, I wouldn't want to work with him.

An email to the head, with the chair of governors copied in. Every headteacher I've worked under, even ones I've really, really disliked would want to know this.

He's making his colleagues vulnerable as well as the obvious concerns.

@InnisandGunn

He's most likely done it to another friend. God knows how many others whilst he was at uni.

This is the part that will get you into trouble, it’s speculation.

Best telling people, it’ll get round much quicker and he won’t know who the source is.

So sorry you're going through this OP.
You've said upthread that you want to protect other women and get him out of his position of responsibility.
I may have misunderstood, but if the police have told you not to tell the school about your case because it's ongoing I would follow their advice. The last thing you want to di is jeopordise any chances you still have of conviction.
However I would definitely tell the school about the 16/17 year old. Even if they can't do anything about it because she's his pupil, his headteacher will be aware that he's dodgy. They will then watch him like a hawk, and any future behaviour (which unfortunately sounds likely) will be picked up sooner.

They will probably also maximise any other opportunities to remove him. I work in healthcare and have seen this when people are sacked for stealing from the stationary cupboard or whatever, its usually the tip of the iceberg, but the only thing with enough evidence to make stick. It's frustrating, but it does remove them from that position.

I don't think people would believe you though. You would just look unhinged.

I'm shaking like a leaf but I've just phoned the school to report the whole girlfriend thing. I'm waiting on a call back. Can't believe I'm actually doing this!

To o/p

If you feel that the case of assault against you has not been properly handled then put it all in writing by way of complaint to the Chief Inspector at the station handling it.

Not by e-mail; a proper letter. And make sure it has the word "complaint" on it. So often the police say "there was no formal complaint". If that fails then go to MP

How bloody frustrating. It's been investigated. They can't tell em the outcome but he's still bloody teaching. She asked me if there were any other concerns and I just wanted to tell her what was going on. I could cry. Why does this bastard get to do whatever he wants!? And why do I have to keep quiet.

Did they phone you back? I would add he was also been questioned under caution for suspicious of rape.

@Emeraldshamrock they did. She was lovely and asked if there was anything else and it was so hard not to say. Surely I'll get into trouble with the police if I say that? Although saying that I half don't care now.

I doubt you would it is not a lie?, but I wouldn't be sure. People are arrested all the time and the details are known.
I'd be very tempted to get the rumour out around his work.
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