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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Would I get done for defamation?

122 replies

InnisandGunn · 13/11/2019 19:58

So, some of you may remember my previous post regarding a police investigation against a friend who sexually assaulted me twice. One whilst asleep, thinking I was drunk. And again when I was blind drunk. All whilst our friends we're sat around. We've gone through the correct channels, I've waited 18 months and the case has changed officer. It transpires the case has been handled horribly and it's looking as though it won't even get put through to CPS. We have a means of getting deleted Facebook messages that would provide irrefutable evidence, but the police won't do it 'because it's not a murder case'. I'm absolutely gutted. No wonder sexual offence conviction rates are so low.

My AIBU is, if this doesn't go anywhere, can I plaster the whole thing everywhere? Well maybe not do that, but post to Facebook about it? He's a school teacher. He's most likely done it to another friend. God knows how many others whilst he was at uni. He has a 16 year old girlfriend. And he gets off, as though nothing ever happens. I can't tell the school, I can't go ballistic at him. I've sat for 18 months and waited, all for it to be ballsed up.

I want everyone to know what he's really like. So I intend to post on Facebook with a very accurate description of him, whilst not actually naming, and describe what he's done to me. Would this be classed as defamation? Reading online it says it's only a crime if what you're saying isn't true. Well I know it's true, he knows it true. All our friends know its true. His parents and my parents know it's true. Yet his parents continue to lie to the police. Can I be done for defamation if I go off on this war path? I just need to do something. I need to somehow attack him back. Make him feel how I feel.

OP posts:
ControversialFerret · 14/11/2019 08:54

I'd do it. Purely on the basis that you know it's true and you can prove it. The only reason he hasn't been prosecuted is because of lack of police resource to properly investigate. You have messages, you have witness statements.

If he wanted to drag it to court, you could crowdfund, take it to the press and across social media and shine a spotlight on the case. You could get women's organisations involved to lobby for you. As it would be libel he has no anonymity and the details of it would mean that mud sticks.

I understand that you'd have to reach a high standard of proof - but you are telling the truth and he is not. How is he going to effectively lie and be able to cover up what he did?

Mollymoo01 · 14/11/2019 09:01

If I was in your shoes I would invest my time and effort finding a better solicitor TBH.
You really need a solicitor that will pretty much drag the case (and police) to court themselves.

The problem with the girlfriend is that although clearly morally wrong (and utterly gross) she was 16 at the time and had presumably left school or at least was at a different school, she is now 17 and honestly they will just say nothing happened while she was 16 (or younger) and at school.

The best and only course of action is to push the case with a SHL and have a really good mull over if there is anyway possible to get more evidence (without doing anything illegal)
Would the other people you think he did this to come forward as well? It would add weight to your case and you’d be more likely to get further if there is a history of this happening to others.

IdblowJonSnow · 14/11/2019 09:03

I'm not going to advise you re social media OP but wanted to say how sorry I am for your experience. How the hell can the police say they cant retrieve evidence because it's not murder. That's awful. I get how you are feeling and that you want this man to be punished and for people to know.
The laws are l terrible in this country and the perpetrators get away with so much. I feel very angry about it - and worried for my daughters.
Flowers for you.

Hollachica · 14/11/2019 09:08

Do it under a #metoo post. Don't mention names but described what happened to you. & how it made you feel. No one can deny you that.

whoopsffs · 14/11/2019 09:23

Hi OP, report him to the NCTL too, he shouldn't be around children.

I would write a statement to the school, explaining your case and that it's with the police, and ask it to be referred to the NCTL. The school will have to, he will be suspended (with pay) immediately pending investigation. Why should he get to go on living his life? If he's in a secondary school too around 17/18 year olds, the risk is still there.

Span1elsRock · 14/11/2019 09:31

You need professional/legal advice on this.

I can completely understand your anger; but he's not worth you having a criminal record over it.

However if a Solicitor does tell you it's fairly unlikely that he'd have any form of recourse, I'd go to town and tell the world.

Flowers
Original poster
InnisandGunn · 14/11/2019 10:05

I didn't realise I could get a solicitor for the case? Or am I not entitled to one anyway as the claimant?

We've tried everything with regards to evidence. It's annoyingly a case of my friend not being able to get onto an old Facebook because she's locked out of her Hotmail and the back up email address is his (oh the irony) so she can't reset it. Her old Facebook has messages of him admitting it. Then I deleted the messages because I kept torturing myself reading them at the time so we need to recover them. I've tried everything. But the police won't do it. It's so frustrating.

OP posts:
Emeraldshamrock · 14/11/2019 10:36

Hi OP I was think ould your friend contact facebook. I am sure with the right documents ID etc they'd reopen her account.
I think FB would reopen the account as she is entitled to the information under the GDPR act if it is her account?
It is worth a try.

Emeraldshamrock · 14/11/2019 10:37

*I was thinking.

Emeraldshamrock · 14/11/2019 10:38

Don't tell them why you need it reopened.

Original poster
InnisandGunn · 14/11/2019 10:48

@Emeraldshamrock that's a really good idea. I just don't know how you'd get in touch with them to do that. We've been through every help page on there and haven't seen anything.

OP posts:
Theendofmyrope · 14/11/2019 10:49

Are there not companies who can do a data download and get the deleted messages? In my DD's rape case the prosecution did a massive data download on her phone and got a huge amount off it..... and it was water damaged.

Emeraldshamrock · 14/11/2019 10:51

I know when I worked for a large online betting company people constantly lost their information.
As long as they has the correct information we would allow them to access the account.
It is worth a try. Goodluck ☘♥️

MonsterRehab23 · 14/11/2019 10:51

I have no advice to give but just want to say so sorry you're going through this OP Flowers

Emeraldshamrock · 14/11/2019 10:54

Go onto their web chat. Ask for the lost account section they'll advise you be direct you want to access under the data protection act.
Everyone wants to do right by the GDPR.
They have fraud detectors etc so it can be done.

Nyon · 14/11/2019 11:05

I’m fairly sure that the whole, you can’t inform the school thing and could be fined is a crock of shit. Please report, and report immediately.

GoodGriefSunshine · 14/11/2019 11:05

Sorry, not had a chance to read the whole thread. You say one attack was in front of your friends and that your friends all know it happened. What did they do at the time?

Katrinawaves · 14/11/2019 11:27

@Nyon she’s informed the safeguarding officers of local authority already and that is ok and doesn’t leave her open to a claim.

The advice she’s being given about defamation risks relates to her “plastering this over Facebook and social media” which is a completely different kettle of fish

Katrinawaves · 14/11/2019 11:33

Also no social media site or publication will publish an allegation against a teacher in respect of conduct towards a pupil unless the teacher has been charged or the Sec of State for Education has authorised it, because this would be a criminal offence under s13 of Education Act 2011. So if OP posted anything which could identify the teacher and related to the girlfriend rather than her own experiences, this would be removed pronto

yellowallpaper · 14/11/2019 15:46

Exactly what Fun said. Defamation is civil law not criminal law, so the police won't be involved at all. He would need to see a solicitor, pay for the solicitor (or get his union to foot the bill), issue you with various letters etc and ultimately have to take you to court, and there prove you were lying....which of course he can't do as you say you have proof. He'd sue you under the libel laws, but unlikely to win unless he has solid proof. You could actually name him if your evidence is solid. Don't mention other people or their experience, it's hearsay and not admissible, just what happened to you.

Katrinawaves · 14/11/2019 17:15

Again. He doesn’t have to prove she’s lying. She has to prove she is telling the truth. That’s the way libel laws work in the UK!

Katrinawaves · 14/11/2019 17:16

Also as mentioned before almost all libel cases are pursued on a no win no fee basis so he wouldn’t have to find legal fees up front.

Please don’t push OP into taking action based on false assurances of the legal position which are wholly incorrect!

Pollywollydolly · 14/11/2019 17:55

@CareOfPunts

Unlike you I am trying to give the op good advice.

listsandbudgets · 14/11/2019 18:47

OP a few points. I am not a solicitor so please don't take them as gospel

  1. There is a good chance you won't be sued for defamation. Unless you are entitled to help with fees, the costs of simply filing the case in court are very high. However, don't discount the possibility that he'll try it. If he does, he will first to complete pre action protocol which involves sending you a letter outlining his claim and giving you a chance to respond. Often, that letter will offer to drop the case in return for you taking down the posts and apologising - but not always. If he does send such a letter you must reply or it will have an impact on how costs are awarded at the end of the case. Its best to seek legal advice if you can manage it. Receiving that letter does not mean he will issue a claim - a lot of cases are sorted out at this early stage.
  1. Be careful though because if you keep posting you could end up being pursued for harassment which is a criminal and / or a civil matter and IIRC a lot cheaper to issue civil proceedings for.
  1. Even if you put up a post without naming him, if people understand your post to refer to him, he can still sue you for defamation.
  1. You could consider suing him for compensation for what you say he did If you've got a reasonable level of evidence then you can probably get a no win no fee solicitor. Again this would be a civil matter where you would need to prove things on the balance of probability rather than beyond reasonable doubt.

Personally I'd advise against it as defamation cases are long winded, stressful, bureaucratic and very expensive but I can understand you wanting to do it.

yellowallpaper · 14/11/2019 18:54

@Katrinawaves Just read what I put...OP has proof so he would have to prove this evidence is unreliable to win his case. Bit circuitous really. Of course if the proof is not findable then she won't win (its not clear what's available). I would suggest checking household insurance as you often have legal advice as an add on.

I have never heard of a NWMF company routinely taking on libel cases! They take on accident claims mainly. The alleged offender is a teacher so belongs to a union and the union would foot the bill. That's my experience. A trade union will take on a case defending someone in the teaching profession.