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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Would I get done for defamation?

122 replies

InnisandGunn · 13/11/2019 19:58

So, some of you may remember my previous post regarding a police investigation against a friend who sexually assaulted me twice. One whilst asleep, thinking I was drunk. And again when I was blind drunk. All whilst our friends we're sat around. We've gone through the correct channels, I've waited 18 months and the case has changed officer. It transpires the case has been handled horribly and it's looking as though it won't even get put through to CPS. We have a means of getting deleted Facebook messages that would provide irrefutable evidence, but the police won't do it 'because it's not a murder case'. I'm absolutely gutted. No wonder sexual offence conviction rates are so low.

My AIBU is, if this doesn't go anywhere, can I plaster the whole thing everywhere? Well maybe not do that, but post to Facebook about it? He's a school teacher. He's most likely done it to another friend. God knows how many others whilst he was at uni. He has a 16 year old girlfriend. And he gets off, as though nothing ever happens. I can't tell the school, I can't go ballistic at him. I've sat for 18 months and waited, all for it to be ballsed up.

I want everyone to know what he's really like. So I intend to post on Facebook with a very accurate description of him, whilst not actually naming, and describe what he's done to me. Would this be classed as defamation? Reading online it says it's only a crime if what you're saying isn't true. Well I know it's true, he knows it true. All our friends know its true. His parents and my parents know it's true. Yet his parents continue to lie to the police. Can I be done for defamation if I go off on this war path? I just need to do something. I need to somehow attack him back. Make him feel how I feel.

OP posts:
Wowserme · 13/11/2019 22:43

Inform the 16 year old girls parents, they may go ballistic and involve the school. If he’s been seeing her before she turned 16 then they may go to the police.
It would certainly help your cause in trying to get justice against this creep!

Griefmonster · 13/11/2019 23:09

Just a thought OP - are you in Scotland? (Your username). If so, most discussion of laws of defamation, CPS etc is not (necessarily) relevant. Different legal system, including different police procedures.

JasBBGG · 13/11/2019 23:19

What does your solicitor say? Can they push it?

Re him dating a 16/17 year old
I am sure his employer would like to know. Doesn't have to be you who tells them.

Chloemol · 14/11/2019 00:05

I wouldn’t put anything on Facebook. However I would talk about it to all my friends, friends of friends etc. Do you know anyone whose kids go to his school, I would talk to them, along the lines of horrific two years been assaulted, police couldn’t do anything it was xxx etc

namechange123779 · 14/11/2019 00:09

I'd consider sending an outing anonymous letter to the press, enough details that that it indicates without your name, terrifies me he's teaching under this kind of investigation, I hope you find some justice xxx

HUZZAH212 · 14/11/2019 00:48

I wouldn't have thought the school would be thrilled even if the girl is 17 now. He's working in a position of trust and as 17-18yr olds will be in 6th form at his school. I'm not sure parents would be thrilled about it. Poor judgement if not technically illegal and would be very frowned upon as questionable morals.

cabbageking · 14/11/2019 00:51

If he can be identified regardless of not using a name then you risk being sued. Do you want this additional worry and the chance you may end up having to fork out to him?

As far as school or anyone else is concerned he is innocent sorry although often teachers resign because mud sticks.

InnisandGunn · 14/11/2019 07:35

@Wowserme unfortunately we tried that. My friend who saw him doing it the second time, she used to date him. When they were dating her mum was good friends with the 17year olds dad. So my friend, and this guy used to babysit the 17 year old he's now dating. There's photos of them playing dressing up together. He's bathed her before. So my friend spoke to her dad, as did my friends mum and he doesn't give a shit. It's mental.

@Griefmonster I'm in England, but he teaches/lives in/assaulted me once in Wales.

@JasBBGG I haven't got a solicitor. As far as I'm aware he has though.

@Chloemol that's a good idea. Unfortunately I don't really have friends that way, but I like your thinking and I could maybe try and make some friends.

@namechange123779 I considered this, but I'd be constantly looking over my shoulder wondering if they knew it was me.

@HUZZAH212 well this is it. I feel caught between doing the right thing, screwing up what tiny shred of hope I have left, and getting in trouble. I could get someone else to do it, but I don't want them getting in trouble too. Saying that it wouldn't be defamation because it's true and all over his and her bloody Facebook.

@cabbageking and this is why I need the mud to stick as much as it can.

OP posts:
InnisandGunn · 14/11/2019 07:36

@AbsinthedelaBonchance I'm not sure what way it'll go now but most likely looking as though CPS won't be involved at all at this rate.

OP posts:
InnisandGunn · 14/11/2019 07:50

Speaking to my friend we think there's no reason we can't phone the school, tell them about his relationship and then slip in 'sorey we didn't tell you earlier but there's a police investigation of a sexual nature ongoing that we're not at liberty to discuss any further'. Would that be alright?

OP posts:
KatherineJaneway · 14/11/2019 07:54

OP, what do you hope to achieve by doing this? I mean, what do you hope would happen to him?

InnisandGunn · 14/11/2019 07:57

@KatherineJaneway that he won't be in a position of power to teach vulnerable young girls as he's clearly got a problem. That'd be my ideal scenario.

OP posts:
Velveteenfruitbowl · 14/11/2019 07:58

It can’t be defamation if it’s true (and you can prove it yourself). However in your place I would consider a private prosecution instead if you have the means.

Pollywollydolly · 14/11/2019 08:01

I know this is a shitty situation but don't do this. You have no proof. all he has to do is say that the CPS didn't think you had a case and he wasn't prosecuted. He will win the case. He will get a large compensation payment and you may think 'that's ok I haven't got the money to pay him.' But in five years you may be about to buy a house and bang you get a demand for the amount you owe and that's your deposit all gone. Or maybe you'll buy a house and as soon as you have enough equity he'll swoop in and force a sale. You are risking your own and your little boy's long term security.

I appreciate it's hard but just walk away.

CareOfPunts · 14/11/2019 08:05

Don’t talk rot, @pollywollydolly

Katrinawaves · 14/11/2019 08:08

Libel lawyer here. As others have said defamation is a civil matter not a criminal one.

He could sue you and if he did the burden of proof is on you to prove that what you r said is true. Because this is a criminal offence you are alleging you would be expected to prove the allegation to almost the criminal standard (ie beyond reasonable doubt). Case would be heard by a judge not a jury.

Most libel lawyers work on a no win no fee basis and so he could sue you without much financial risk to himself.

My first libel case was very similar to what you describe and the complainant was awarded about £0.5m plus his costs. He ended up being convicted 20 years later for the offence he’d been accused of and died in prison. The defendants did not get their money back.

Honestly, if CPS don’t think they can get a conviction, you’d be insane to consider doing this.

CareOfPunts · 14/11/2019 08:12

Katrinawaves I find it extremely hard to believe you’re a libel lawyer given that post.

Thestrangestthing · 14/11/2019 08:14

I think it's a bit risky to post a description of him and not post his name. What if people mistake the description for someone else?

CareOfPunts · 14/11/2019 08:17

That said I don’t think I’d risk something that might lead to him suing me, but if I did anything I might be more inclined to take a civil action as per David Goodwillie’s victim

InnisandGunn · 14/11/2019 08:25

@CareOfPunts I think that's what I'm thinking of doing more now. Going to speak to school regarding his relationship as feel that will do something towards safeguarding concerns then look into pursuing him that way

OP posts:
Newoneonherr · 14/11/2019 08:39

If you do that to him, he will just do the same thing to you. Both yours and his names, possibly pictures, will be littering social media.

Do you really want that?

Every one that knows you, friends, family, colleagues, neighbours, your doctors receptionist, the bus driver, everyone.

You would be playing a potentially damaging game.

Civil or not, doing what you're suggesting is not a good idea.

Do you have the money to sue him when he does the same back to you?

suesylvesterr · 14/11/2019 08:41

Haven't read the full thread yet, but it was a year ago today I was raped by a "friend".

I posted it all on Facebook, got everything off of my chest because I'd found out he had proposed to his girlfriend (yes he had a girlfriend when he raped me) on the day his bail was meant to end. We had a lot of mutual friends on Facebook so didn't name him directly but shared information that they would know and be able to figure out who it was.

This case was still ongoing at the time. His girlfriend called the officer dealing with the case and I received a phone call. The police officer said although she couldn't tell me not to do it, she just strongly advised me from saying any more.

He did jack shit about it. Disappeared from social media entirely.

Made me feel a damn sight better for a short period of time.

Katrinawaves · 14/11/2019 08:42

@CareOfPunts I promise you I am and have been for 27 years! Which part of my post do you disagree with and I’m happy to post links to relevant sources to substantiate Smile

Genevieva · 14/11/2019 08:46

A tabloid article in which he isn't named but only described in vague terms (there are a lot of teachers out there)... Experiences that demonstrate failure to prosecute dangerous criminals are in the public interest.

plantainchips · 14/11/2019 08:49

Honestly, don’t do it. The fact that CPS (imo wrongly) think u don’t have a case, says it all.