To ask for a view on this ? If someone gets benefits and are not a carer / single parent etc .. then they should contribute to society in order to receive benefits ?

[Ooola]

I think in society we should all support orhers.
The taxpayers contribute by paying taxes .
Vulnerable people such as disabled , carers etc should be supported by others .
Those who can’t find work and get benefits .. should be required to give something back for the money they get ...not be forced to work for a big co operation but to contribute . Things like park maintenance , listening services , support to the struggling public services . There could be matching service so that they could chose to gain experience or use the skills they have to benefit others .
Any police checks , as are required in other jobs , would be funded . Does this sound fair ? If we all give what we can then it may be of benefit to all , including the claimant who could use this to build c v , etc . Surely it’s win win in principle ? If someone gets benefits say at a level of 10 k , 13 k , 20 k
.. it feels fair that they give something for that especially as it is comparable to someone working and getting minimum wage ?
Clearly time would need to be given off for job interviews etc .

When l was on JSA after my surgery, some bright spark at the jobcentre (not my usual work coach) suggested l could work a month (unpaid) in another jobcentre for 'experience'.
l was a support worker with the police for 28 years. For 16 of those years l was a manager. How much 'experience' does anyone want?
My work coach couldn't believe it when l told her. She said it was ridiculous and insulting.

Pardonwhat
What I meant is I would expect to work for my work wages . Money .
And ..
that I would expect to work for my benefit wages. Money .

There are approximately 750,000 vacancies and 1.3 million unemployed - how about putting your energy into thinking up ways to even out that figure eh?

And while we’re here, what exactly are you doing to ‘give back to society’? Presuming you’ve had the benefit of health care, education, infrastructure etc. Surely your grateful enough to add a few more hours into your week (for free obviously since I presume you’re employed) for the benefit of society.

Thinking up valid policies to rile Internet forums doesn’t count.

@Velveteenfruitbowl I wasn’t “being like that”, I was just trying to challenge the OP into thinking through the public reception and fairness of a system like this.

My personal objection to the OP’s policy is far more around the areas many other posters have given - not wanting a bloody workhouse, not providing slave labour for big corporates, not taking away work that ought to have been given as paid jobs with the contract, protection, benefits and pension contributions along side that.

I was just interested to see how the OP would incorporate those who have paid NI into her half baked scheme!

FWIW without personally calculating the things you list, I fall into the ONS ‘net contributor’ group - and I’m bloody glad that I’m fortunate to do so. I am perfectly happy for my NI and tax to support those in greater need, and would vote for a party that would take more from me, if I trusted it would go to those who needed it.

I believe that there are people out there who ‘work’ the system, but I believe they’re in the minority.

If a person can do , for example 4 hours a week for the fair exchange of benefits of say £200 a week .. that’s not ‘ slave wages ‘ it’s the equivilant of £50Per hour ..

An unemployed single person with no disabilities, living in a one bed flat with rent if £450 per month and Band A council tax would be entitled to £165.91 per week in benefits. They would need to pay rent and council tax out of this (minus a 25%, single persons discount).

An unemployed single parent with two children, paying £550 a month rent on a two bed property, with the same council tax reduction would be entitled to £317.71 per week. Again they would need to pay rent and council tax out of this minus the single persons discount.

Hardly rolling in it, are they?

Valid? Oh dear god no - vapid is what I meant.

There are so many problems to this idea. The vast cost of having people to supervise these workers and the fact that - if on benefits - they are required to spend 35 hours "lokking for work" which in effect means mindlessly sitting at a computer "applying" for unsuitable jobs.

Far better in my view was the "old" system where those who were -frankly - incapable of meaningful work simply claimed "the dole" leaving the real jobs for those who could do them.

Years ago I worked in a voluntary capacity in a bookshop. Every week dozens of "speculative" applications for jobs were sent in. We had no paid vacancies and a policy that all were replied to. It seemed that applicants were forced to apply for jobs "on spec". We ultimately wrote to whatever the jobcentre was then called with a complaint that these people were not to apply to us!

Victorian workhouses were awful and one way traps. I'm not proposing rat infested dormitories next to a laundry. It's more giving goods and services rather than cash - and could resemble student halls family accommodation.

It would be a way of supplying what people need in a more organised way that removes some of the problems of extreme poverty in our current set up. Would children like to live somewhere with clean sheets, complete uniform and regular meals rather than current situation of holiday hunger, debt, sanctions etc? Some of those I've met would. I'm not suggesting splitting families.

Yes it would be nicer to have more choice but that's the incentive to move up from the safety net.

But @Ooola if you’re in a NMW job, you’re a net beneficiary of the state.

By your logic, you’ve got a £20k deficit to get cracking on (if you work full-time, more if you work p/t). You’d need to be earning £38k to be paying your own way.

Why shouldn’t you have to do voluntary work to “give something back”?

Justmuddlingalong
I respect your attitude
I imagine it would be ok to expect similar manners .

FFS why are people who work and struggling blaming people on benefits for their problems instead of the stupid employers who are paying them shit wages and excusing it by saying

1. We need to remain competitive against low labour costs abroad
2. It encourages investment

Instead of challenging the pillocks underpaying you and those who actually have the power to change things no, it's bloody Susan down the road in her council house with her Amazon packages constantly being delivered while she gets the school to pay for her DD's school trip but wearing new trainer's fault while I'm struggling. FFS Susan isn't your problem shit employers and shit politicians are. Plus you dont know that Susan's mum bough her some much needed new clothes or she had a voucher for Christmas to get her hair done. Noone on benefits is living the high life contrary to popular belief.

Imagine away.

Victorian workhouses were awful and one way traps. I'm not proposing rat infested dormitories next to a laundry. It's more giving goods and services rather than cash - and could resemble student halls family accommodation.

So they'd be sunny, happy places rather than poverty trap ghettos? Okay then...

there are generations of people who are not motivated to work ( I don’t meN I’m deprived areas where it is scarce )

The Rowntree Foundation were unable to find a single example of a family with three generations who have never worked.

What makes you think this hasn't already been tried? Young people used to have to work for their benefits and all that happened was that older people got sacked, because employers could get labour for £30 a week.

That happened with my DN. Six months she worked for the YMCA in their before and after school care. Five months in a row her reviews were glowing, then in the last month they decided she "wasn't the best fit" and decided not to offer her the job. They got another person in on the scheme.

Funnily enough two months later when they had a sudden staff shortage she fitted well enough for them to call her and offer her a full time job...

It's also bad enough that our vulnerable elderly in care homes are sometimes cared for by people who really don't want to be there, but now we should be sending forced people into people's homes to befriend them? That doesn't have potential disaster written all over it at all...

I think the unemployed should give back to society what society gives them. So basically fuck all then.

Volvemos
Ok
I get there are contradictions .
However , I have paid tax for many many years on a 35 k wage , until recently ( 30+ years ) . Yes that makes me have a deficit- I understand . I didn’t say it was uncomplex .. however ., if I was unemployed I would want to contribute just as u did when I paid taxes .. just in a different way .
And yes , I do do voluntary work too .

@Boysey45 fantastically well put 👏🏻

There are approximately 750,000 vacancies and 1.3 million unemployed

This is from a PP.

@doublehelix what do you suggest for the 550,000 people for whom there are no jobs? No amount of living in the workhouse the poverty ghetto family halls of residence is going to motivate then to get off benefits and into jobs that don't exist. Where do they go?

My relative is unemployed . She doesn’t get fuck all . She gets money . She is disabled and is in one of the groups mentioned that would struggle to contribute .
She is well supported in an adapted flat and has a decent life . Not fuck all .

What voluntary work? Church flowers?

Go volunteer at your local food bank and try out your lecturing there.

lyralalala
Absolutely wrong what happened to your family . I said no way re businesses that would profit .
No . Not to force people to work with the elderly etc . No way . I said that as one example only . If they did want to be matched to that then it would require police checks etc .

I also dont understand how people begrudge their neighbour for £1300 a month in UC but have no problem with the government giving Amazon tax breaks and subsidies that actually result in the government paying Amazon to operate in the UK for low quality jobs. I think on average each FC benefits +£4million pa (after taxes and subsidies) in exchange for providing 200 jobs. How ridiculous that we are paying Amazon ~£20 000 for each underpaid low quality job they provide. But you have a problem with vulnerable people getting help from the government

one factor undermining this idea is that it would cause problems for people who are working full time already and in receipt of benefits,
it could be argued that those people are in receipt of benefits largely because of the government's failure to properly regulate the housing market

Cornettoninja
Oh the irony .
You are stereo typing me .
! Yes that’s what I do . Well one of them .
How funny that you assumed that wasn’t what I did .

I know exactly how to pack a general family bag , special
Bags for treats , Sorting , and also how to support someone who comes into the food bank .
Sorry but you got it wrong .