To ask for a view on this ? If someone gets benefits and are not a carer / single parent etc .. then they should contribute to society in order to receive benefits ?

[Ooola]

I think in society we should all support orhers.
The taxpayers contribute by paying taxes .
Vulnerable people such as disabled , carers etc should be supported by others .
Those who can’t find work and get benefits .. should be required to give something back for the money they get ...not be forced to work for a big co operation but to contribute . Things like park maintenance , listening services , support to the struggling public services . There could be matching service so that they could chose to gain experience or use the skills they have to benefit others .
Any police checks , as are required in other jobs , would be funded . Does this sound fair ? If we all give what we can then it may be of benefit to all , including the claimant who could use this to build c v , etc . Surely it’s win win in principle ? If someone gets benefits say at a level of 10 k , 13 k , 20 k
.. it feels fair that they give something for that especially as it is comparable to someone working and getting minimum wage ?
Clearly time would need to be given off for job interviews etc .

About 12 years ago The Rowntree Foundation did research on these 3rd generation of families unemployed.
There really weren't that many, and were pockets in certain areas.
As conditionality and sanctions are in place now and you are given a job in Primark, fast food restaurants and Pound Shops, it's unlikely to be happening at all let alone in significant numbers.
It's a pity they couldn't reach these families through education and support, but they got them in the end, don't froth too much.

lyra

That should teach me, I wrote my post walked away and came back to post.

The Nazis did what the OP suggested, that’s how they built the autobahn and other public works. It was unpopular in Germany for all of the reasons mentioned on here.

I would say that anyone who is able to work but is unemployed for 6 months should be given free training to help them get back into work. The training, transport to and from work plus any specialised materials should be provided. If we need plasterers, train drivers, bakers or whatever let’s train people so they can fulfil those jobs.

People need practical help and not to be condemned.

Haven't RTFT but if someone does a job they deserve paying a decent wage for it. Park maintenance or whatever is a proper job with a proper wage. Help with training is one thing but working in exchange for money is a job. If there's a job pay them a wage

Wow! You’re STILL making assumptions that you know better than other posters! Why?!

“I wonder how many of those live in an area if high crime, poverty, drug addiction, child neglect, violence” me for one!! I live in one of the worst areas in the whole country for all those things! And my family are from one of the most infamously rough parts of Glasgow!

“More than most.” On mental illness - I’m guessing you mean personal experience but again you’re assuming posters don’t have the same experience as you.

I have a mental illness condition I’ve had all my life, but wasn’t dx until I was much older, I’ve also cared for the mentally ill as a nurse and for my own reasons I’ve done a hell of a lot of research too. There are posters on mn who are mh professionals, have been dealing with having mental illness themselves for many years and/or caring for a loved one that’s mentally ill yet you think you know more than them?

“And in another country where things are totally different, including the benefits system” to be fair although they said Ireland I haven’t assumed whether they mean Northern Ireland (in which case as part of uk system same) or Republic of Ireland which yes is a completely different country, but emerald seems to be posting from a perspective of being under the uk system.

“It is not that different here we have lots of work shy people too.” You’re STILL making assumptions about people, most of whom you don’t even know! Why are you assuming all unemployed are “work shy”? Where is your evidence for this?

“Some families are 3rd generation on unemployment benefit since it was introduced.” Again - where is your evidence for this? It’s certainly not true that there are swathes of them in the uk and never was, when did unemployment benefit come in in Ireland?

“It's the other hundreds that voted YANBU we should be concerned with.
It's their festering resentment that puts a cross in the Tory box.
They can't bear it but they don't say it.” Cowardly to be honest to do that. Not got the courage of their convictions but happy to screw over anyone they deem undeserving, they should be ashamed. I suspect many if they posted and we were able to search posting history we’d find they were either very well off so not affected by such policies (yet) or mired in cognitive dissonance and unable to see THEY are EXACTLY the people the govt mean when they demonise the poorer people in our country. Like when Cameron went on he didn’t WANT to reduce tax credits, dodged many questions on the subject and a significant proportion of the population fooled themselves into thinking the tories & most of the press didn’t mean them when they talked about “benefit scroungers” only to be hit by tax credit cuts as soon as they got in. Iirc I believe there was even an audience member on question time who was livid her tax credits had been cut but seemed unable to realise that as far as Cameron et al were concerned she was no more deserving of help than ‘Karen down the road who’s never worked and keeps popping out kids to keep her council house and huge amounts in benefits’ (who of course doesn’t and never really did exist!).

I think when UC starts hitting mor people, particularly people currently on tax credits who are working full time and don’t think of themselves (yet) as “benefit scroungers” we’ll MAYBE start seeing a bit more “hang on a minute! I work full time and you’re treating me like one of ‘them’” and “oh shit, the tories don’t give a toss about me and mine” but I’m concerned to a degree it may be too late.

“I would say that anyone who is able to work but is unemployed for 6 months should be given free training to help them get back into work. The training, transport to and from work plus any specialised materials should be provided. If we need plasterers, train drivers, bakers or whatever let’s train people so they can fulfil those jobs.” I hope you’re aware that this govt has cut pretty much all of this? I am no fan of new labour, anyone familiar with my posting history knows this, but they did have schemes and grants in place for this kind of thing. When I returned to work after my accident I needed work clothes, I didn’t even have a winter coat and I’m in scotland! I had a cheap denim jacket at the time I’d picked up in a charity shop. I needed help with transport costs and deposit to secure childcare for dd, all of which I got help for. If I hadn’t I’d not have been able to accept that job.

I’m being told by friends/family returning to work more recently that the system has also changed in terms of having benefits paid for a while after you start work until first pay day, that’s no longer as simple or as long as it was I’m hearing, happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.

Those working with top ups are working. Let the government top all the low earners up or increase wages.
The problem with increasing wages with companies is they leave

So you are ok with taxpayers subsidising the wage bills of billion pound businesses and lining the pockets of share holders?

And, if we are going down the 'spending all their benefits on booze and fags' route this means more benefit money is coming straight back to the government via taxation so it's a win win 🤷‍♀️

In the days when there was a decent supply of council housing, the housing benefit was paid by the council to the tenant... who paid it back to the council. This might sound a bit silly, but it meant the money stayed in circulation. Nowadays housing benefit is mostly paid into the pockets of private landlords, who don't necessarily pay it back to the council - they might pay business rates and, of course, their own council tax, but they might also be popping that money into an offshore banking account, taking it out of circulation.

' If someone gets benefits say at a level of 10 k , 13 k , 20 k''

Most people don't get benefits of 20k unless they have a lot of kids they have to pay for with that. IDK if many people even get 13k or 10k for just unemployment benefits for a single person.

The whole point of JSA and the equivalent is people are supposed to treat applying for jobs as a full time job- so they wouldn't really have time for anything else.

Aren't convicted criminals doing these now? So unemployed people should be treated like criminals.

I work in an advice charity we rely on volunteers, sometimes through the job centre. But what you suggest op is not going to improve the benefits system. In my opinion

1. Work should either be paid or voluntary - not a condition of benefits.
2. people on benefits often work as well and are poorly paid.
3. people on benefits are meant to be making job seeking a full time occupation. They have to demonstrate this through regular contact with work coach, attendance of courses etc.
4. There are plenty of worn out benefit claimants, worn out by decades in labour intensive work, not capable of desk jobs, too young to retire, finding it difficult to retrain.
5. if you really wanted a radical reform of benefits - introduce a citizens wage paid to every adult, not means tested or conditional, that would reduce admin costs, encourage actual volunteering, less prescriptive and fairer.

The benefits are being paid anyway so why not get communal
Benefit from that money ?

We do get communal benefit from that money. Unless you think avoiding people living in destitution, child poverty and vagrancy is a bad thing?

Enforced volunteering is a contradiction in terms. What you’re talking about is forced labour.