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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask for a view on this ? If someone gets benefits and are not a carer / single parent etc .. then they should contribute to society in order to receive benefits ?

386 replies

Ooola · 11/11/2019 21:23

I think in society we should all support orhers.
The taxpayers contribute by paying taxes .
Vulnerable people such as disabled , carers etc should be supported by others .
Those who can’t find work and get benefits .. should be required to give something back for the money they get ...not be forced to work for a big co operation but to contribute . Things like park maintenance , listening services , support to the struggling public services . There could be matching service so that they could chose to gain experience or use the skills they have to benefit others .
Any police checks , as are required in other jobs , would be funded . Does this sound fair ? If we all give what we can then it may be of benefit to all , including the claimant who could use this to build c v , etc . Surely it’s win win in principle ? If someone gets benefits say at a level of 10 k , 13 k , 20 k
.. it feels fair that they give something for that especially as it is comparable to someone working and getting minimum wage ?
Clearly time would need to be given off for job interviews etc .

OP posts:
monstermissy · 12/11/2019 19:08

Just admit you've had a shit idea based on not much knowledge.... 🤷‍♀️

I've been a community development worker for years... the system is floored, watch I, Daniel Blake it's real life for many many people.

I work full time Monday-Friday and 1-2 evenings a week for a children charity, I am very happy to contribute to people needing benefits and proud our country has some system to catch people (although it could be better). If a small percentage of these people are 'piss takers' and refuse to work fair enough. I'd rather that than some of the alternatives I've read on this thread.

Nothing stopping anyone quitting their job and joining the piss takers if it's so good!

doublebarrellednurse · 12/11/2019 19:10

Bring back the work house!!!!

Sorry OP you lost me at

Vulnerable people such as disabled

Your argument is as flawed as your language.

Hingeandbracket · 12/11/2019 19:20

OP can't answer any question on the logic of the proposals or their value and seems highly confused.

This is deffo a Tory bot.

WwfLeopard · 12/11/2019 19:24

Wow! Think jsa is about £70 quid a week.... far from 10kpa. What could you actually expect some1 todo for that? They wouldn’t even have spare for bus fair to get to said slave labour

Elle7rose · 12/11/2019 19:41

People who claim benefits who are fit for work are made to look for work and to prove that they are doing this daily for a set number of hours. No, they shouldn't be made to engage in slave labour.

Elle7rose · 12/11/2019 19:42

Also people who are not ill, caring or disabled are very unlikely to receive more than £3640 per year (JSA rate).

FabbyChix · 12/11/2019 19:45

Considering there are jobs why aren’t they working? There are jobs out there so there is no excuse not to work. Cleaning, care work I’m a professional but would clean I’d i couldn’t find a job in my field

doublebarrellednurse · 12/11/2019 19:55

Not everyone is suited for care work. It pisses me off that everytime there is a thread like this someone says "be a carer!".

Care work is hard. It's long hours. It involves many social and communication skills. It requires a lot of management skills as well. It often involves physical strength as well as mental robustness.

Would you want your family cared for by someone who doesn't want to be there and is only there cause the government says so?

I've worked with disengaged carers and it's shit.

LinnetBird · 12/11/2019 19:58

Where do you expect workers on benefit to find the time to do extra volunteer work.
Unemployed/job seekers don't get money for nothing, they work ft job seeking.
The clue is in the title.

Pardonwhat · 12/11/2019 20:02

FabbyChix

You’re an arsehole.

feellikeanalien · 12/11/2019 20:02

The fact that 40% of people on here agree with the OP is really depressing.

Perhaps if the DWP actually tried to help people into work rather than prioritising meeting their sanction targets there would not be so many on benefits.

Perhaps if the DWP sent people on courses that actually had some use there would not be so many on benefits.

Perhaps if employers paid decent wages people wouldn't have to claim in work benefit.

Perhaps if housing and childcare were more affordable people wouldn't have to claim in work benefits.

I could go on but clearly those who agree with the OP would be totally unconvinced because obviously it is all the fault of the "scummy" benefit claimants .

This makes me angry and depressed in equal measure. We are all human beings. Is it too much to expect a little empathy and at least attempt to understand that some people are forced on to benefits through no fault of their own rather than pushing this narrative of "feckless" claimants living the life of Riley on their "free" money!!

Rant over

oreomum · 12/11/2019 20:07

You can't have people just out of prison working as carers or working in places with kids if their offenses involve that.

Your idea would end up with people on low wages being made redundant. Why pay people to trim trees, pick litter etc when a volunteer will do it for nothing. Councils would be all over this and before you know it they'd have volunteers doing most jobs for cost reasons.

Remember Workfare? Profitable companies like Tesco and Poundland we're taking on Workfare people instead of hiring salaried people.

You forget that many receiving benefits actually work. Who pays for childcare while the parent volunteers? The government doesn't pay childcare during school holidays- does that mean people paying to volunteer?

Spikeyball · 12/11/2019 20:19

Care work should be done by people who want to do it not those who are forced to.

I doubt FabbyChix would be happy with her children being looked after by people who are being forced to do it.

Venger · 12/11/2019 20:36

Considering there are jobs why aren’t they working? There are jobs out there so there is no excuse not to work. Cleaning, care work I’m a professional but would clean I’d i couldn’t find a job in my field

There are currently 1.3 million unemployed people and 750,000 job vacancies. There aren't enough jobs for them to all be in employment and of the 750,000 vacancies there will jobs they're not qualified for, jobs at the other end of the country, jobs that don't fit around their other commitments (e.g., childcare), and do on.

Grimbles · 12/11/2019 20:40

CherryPavlova

The U.K. has one of the lowest unemployment rates in Europe. I think we’re about seventh overall. That looks like a good thing but unfortunately many U.K. jobs are zero hours, insecure work

I recently saw a meme which was US related, but I think its pertinent here.

'The Republicans have created 50000 new jobs this year'

'Yes, I have 3 of them and still cant afford to pay my rent'

lyralalala · 12/11/2019 20:40

How many charities have the time and resources to train up (and potentially DBS check) people for one or two weeks work?

Plus how unrealiable would volunteers be? Cancelling because they got an interview

Unless we get into the stupid situation you have with some inflexible work coaches where sign on times can't be changed so people have to miss interviews to sign on

FlemCandango · 12/11/2019 20:58

I work in a charity reliant on volunteers. You know who isn't a volunteer? Someone who hasn't chosen to volunteer but is required to. I don't know how much experience you have with volunteering or managing volunteers, op, but I can tell you I would rather stick pins in my eyes than spend my days getting your version of volunteers to do anything productive. Your version of "workfare" is not a great idea and it is not an innovative idea op.

I help advise people claiming benefits, they are not a separate species or deviants, they are people, with limited options, poor housing, vulnerable to debt (and charged more for the privilege of going into debt). The majority of benefit claimants are working, because wages are low, yet we still seem to act like the problem is "them".

More of a problem is the capitalist economy reinforced by the benefits system, low wages, insecure, zero hour jobs and millions of pounds wasted on Universal Credit. Politicians like to look tough by taking on the benefits system and big talk about getting people off benefits. They seem less keen on criticising businesses that keep their costs down hiring cheap labour subsidised by the benefits system.

I would like to see fair wages and maybe higher taxes, better regulation of employment, more social responsibility expected from business owners. It would be far cheaper just to pay a basic wage to everyone than spend millions on administration of a benefits system. So what if some people are lazy feckers. There are worse crimes committed and more harm done by corporations.

CherryPavlova · 12/11/2019 20:58

Grimbles. Indeed truly pertinent.

Graphista · 12/11/2019 21:30

“Considering there are jobs why aren’t they working? There are jobs out there so there is no excuse not to work. Cleaning, care work I’m a professional but would clean I’d i couldn’t find a job in my field”

It’s not as simple as x no of jobs vs y number of unemployed.

Although that’s certainly, as myself and others have pointed out, a very real factor, there are far more people jobseeking than there are vacancies.

It’s also whether people have the skills and ability to do the jobs available. And that includes jobs traditionally seen as “menial”.

As has already been said MANY times and as someone who was a manager in elderly care for some years care work requires a very particular aptitude and skills it is absolutely NOT a job just anybody willing to (let ALONE those unwilling have you never heard of elder abuse?!) can do and to imply it is not only is insulting to care workers but to those they care for who are usually very vulnerable and definitely don’t deserve anything but the most committed and skilled staff.

“I've worked with disengaged carers and it's shit.” Totally after, even carers who hate certain aspects of the job are by far better than those that are indifferent. The indifferent ones cause the most issues.

Even cleaning, I have ocd it’s the one job I absolutely could not do I find it stressful enough dealing with my own shit (literally!) to make someone like me do such a job would be cruel and ridiculous. There are also people I know who wouldn’t be able to do this job due to issues like severe allergies or physical limitations, and quite honestly I’d say (and my friend who owns her own commercial cleaning company I’m sure would agree) that this job also requires skills in terms of assessing a job, working out how best to do it in the time available, knowing which products to use etc indeed there was a thread on mn recently where an op and I think their dh had foolishly thought they could go into business as cleaners, volunteered their services to some friends and promptly very expensively wrecked friends granite worktops by using the wrong product.

I’ve over the years heard a few tales like that via being an army brat (when army families move out of quarters they have to be spotlessly clean when “handed over” to the army. Most do it themselves which can lead to shocking mishaps but even more shocking is the number of supposed “professional” cleaners employed for this task that have wrecked stuff, set things on fire or caused the creation of noxious fumes! My aforementioned friend with her own company has also regularly been called in to fix things previous cleaning companies have messed up!)

As for us having supposedly low unemployment within Europe I’d like to know if those stats have been calculated in the same way for each country compared or if its from stats collected from the individual countries and likely calculated in totally different ways so not a true comparison.

Inebriati · 12/11/2019 21:40

The stats on employment in the UK are skewed by the way people are counted; if you have a job where you are contracted to work for one hour a week, you are counted as employed.
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/06/employment-statistics-wages-uk-jobs-market

Graphista · 12/11/2019 21:53

I've actually read several times one hour per fortnight = counted as employed which is ridiculous

IndieTara · 12/11/2019 22:53

Op im a single parent who works full time. I also receive a benefits top up.
To enable my ft working hours I put my daughter into school from 7.30am to 6pm so we both have a very long day. I then have to do all of the other daily household tasks/ chores /admin to keep our lives and household running. I have health issues, arthritis, migraine, bad back. How are you expecting me to do extra hours to 'give back' or are my daughter and I to he carted off to a dormitory somewhere?

Northernsoulgirl45 · 13/11/2019 07:09

Yeah workfare. Take a volunteer JSA claimants out of a decent charity shop who are developing them and make them spend 35 ish hours a week doing crap work and still having to job search on top.

WhineUp · 13/11/2019 09:53

OP, I have a lot to say about people like you but because I'm feeling somewhat generous today, I won't insult you - you've insulted yourself enough on this thread. Your cognitive capacity is obviously quite limited.

So I'll just leave this here - YABU.

TheQueef · 13/11/2019 09:54

@Graphista
Good posts.
I find this thread, mainly the fucking poll result, deeply worrying.
A close friend had an actual breakdown, just trying to fill in the form and gather evidence. Eight days of solid uncontrollable crying it was heartbreaking to watch.
I've so much sympathy for everyone with an illness trying to navigate PIP or ESA. I sincerely wish you the best of luck Flowers

Luckily for me I had an old CS pension which paid out when I became ill or I'd be on the carousel too.

The 40% of anonymous voters who'd like to see some sort of enforced Labour should hang their heads.
They've no idea how close They are and will be complaining the loudest when the shit hits their fan.
Selfish weasels.

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