To be pissed off with 'the man should pay' types?

[wimbmumma]

I just find it so outdated! The only time I've ever let the man pay was, coincidentally, on my first date with my ex husband. Doesn't even cross most of me and my friends' minds that you should split it (if it is a dinner date that is) but A LOT of the schoolmums feel very differently, as they made abundantly clear at a coffee morning... so AIBU to find them a bit annoying and utterly stuck in the 19th century

@matcatwomanheresheis they are all very valid points, but based on individual experience. Nothing will change as long as people continue to view life through their own lens. As an analogy, based on my individual situation, I can benefit economically from a conservative government. Millions of others will continue to suffer under one. As long as that's the case I'll never vote for them. If I earn more than the man next to for doing the same job, should I not support efforts for equal pay or closing the gender pay gap? Looking at the bigger picture isn't simplistic. If an individual women is truly committed to equality for ALL women, she won't pick and mix her beliefs or hide behind nuance.

An excellent example of one's political philosophy re-imagined as a universal reality.

Except, @EntropyRising, you failed to quote my last sentence which was...

But not every women is up for the fight and that's reality.

I wouldn’t be impressed if the man didn’t pay on a date. That would be the first and last date.

Why hagbeth? What’s so offensive about paying off your own food?

^for not off

You presume that your fight and that of womankind's are the same. They're not.

@EntropyRising I haven't presumed that at all. I've acknowledged they're not the same, though my fight is aligned to a proportion of womankind.

I've been married for more than 25 years so it's a long time since I dated, but in my book the person who does the inviting should expect to pay, at least for the first date.

However, the inviter has the privilege of choosing, or at least suggesting, the location, and therefore the likely cost, of the date. I was just as happy with a drink in the pub or a walk in the park. If someone invited me for a drink at a pub, I'd have expected him to buy me a drink first. After all, he'd have invited me! After that, I'd buy him one. If a meal, I'd offer to split the bill, and would mean it, but would expect him to pay. Then if we went out again, I'd expect to pay.

I'd be annoyed if someone invited me out for a meal, chose the most expensive thing on the menu and lots of expensive drinks, and then expected me to pay half!

I've been married for more than 25 years so it's a long time since I dated, but in my book the person who does the inviting should expect to pay, at least for the first date.

I think the advent of mass online dating has changed this. When you match, if the conversation goes well then a date is the natural step. The matching means you've both been upfront about your potential desire to date so who advances the conversation is less important. I met my chap online. He went to trouble to arrive at the venue before me, it didn't matter to me either way, I often pop into bars solo fir a drink. He bought my drink when I arrived then I bought the next round. We took turns after that. 3 years in and sharing the costs works a treat for us

I feel sorry for people who view men paying as a symbol that they are paying the woman like she’s a prize or for sex ect. That’s very cynical.
It’s an old fashioned tradition, and many older men in my family, and that I know, still do this, whether it be to me or other women on the family, or friends and it certainly isn’t to be sexist or for sexual favours. It’s just because that’s how they were brought up.
Personally, I wouldn’t be attracted to a man that didn’t offer to pay. Whether I’d let him or not is irrelevant, the money isn’t the issue. It’s the gesture.
I also like doors held open, a man to offer his jacket if I’m cold, those sort of things.
Not everybody has to like the same qualities in a person.

But it’s not the same as opening doors or offering a jacket.

And generally a man does expect something in return if they pay

it certainly isn’t to be sexist or for sexual favours. It’s just because that’s how they were brought up.

They were brought up to promulgate sexist traditions. I'm not blaming them, like I said earlier, it's insidious.

My ex insisted on paying for all of our dates even though I was uncomfortable with it and wanted to take it in turns. It turns out he was controlling and saw a lot of tasks as women's work (cooking etc).

So a man insisting on paying and who does not respect your wishes about it is a red flag in my view.

I have a fairly recent ex who ( despite earning more than twice my salary, no rent or mortgage to pay and no kids so loads of disposable income while Ivwas in a very tight budget ) insisted we alternate who paid for dinner 'so then it's fair and we can both treat each other '

@IndieTara did you want him to pay every time? That's not fair to him either.

It also costs us far more in haircuts, make up, hair removal, safe method of transport home etc etc etc to go on a date than it does a man. Free lunch is just a pink tax rebate surely? [I’m joking, don’t hurt me!]

If a date agreed to split the bill I would take that as a sign he wasn't interested.

@PurpleDaisies Because it would be an insult to me, and it would make me feel like he’s not valuing me enough. I asked my husband just now and he feels the same. We’re i our early fifties.

yes merlot, I would too. and a man said to me that if a woman insists on paying half, she's not interested. That would be the way I approach things too. If a man values you he will want to TREAT you. Not buy you. It's not a transaction. You're still not for sale. The right type of man gets this.

But on the first date, how do you equally "TREAT" the man?

Splitting usually is the way to go with friends, in a relationship taking turns makes sense unless there's a major income differential

@Antigon I most certainly did not and have never expected that on any date with anyone. For me it was more his complete lack of thought that financially I might not be able to keep up with him. ( he knew my circumstances ) I ended up repeatedly having to explain that I couldn't always afford to do the things he wanted to. And saying no to dates also.
As I've had to be very careful money wise for a long time it actually meant I made better date choices. I always got more for my money.

“But on the first date, how do you equally "TREAT" the man?”

Well they don’t necessarily want anything back. In fact it’s the opposite, I’ve found, because they like to feel like they’re the one who needs to make more of an effort to begin with. So actually, if you start insisting on paying all the time, you’re taking that away from them.

And what's all this 'treating each other' anyway. If you alternate who pays on each date nobody is actually treating anybody

Yes @matcatwomanheresheis, let's continue to make men feel like they're in the driving seat.

Honest to bloody god.