To be pissed off with 'the man should pay' types?

[wimbmumma]

I just find it so outdated! The only time I've ever let the man pay was, coincidentally, on my first date with my ex husband. Doesn't even cross most of me and my friends' minds that you should split it (if it is a dinner date that is) but A LOT of the schoolmums feel very differently, as they made abundantly clear at a coffee morning... so AIBU to find them a bit annoying and utterly stuck in the 19th century

I'm also not keen on, although I’ve only seen this in this thread and not experienced it in person, the notion of “gender pay gap so he should pay”. You would take a widely misunderstood and misapplied economic average and use it to inflict a penalty on an individual you’re dating? That sort of mentality is a red flag that anybody would be grateful to see early on before they get too invested in a relationship.

Agreed! In a thread that contains some unusually embarrassing batshit batshittery, this is the batshittiest.

I'm fairly certain that 20+ year olds don't behave in this archaic way.

Daughter at uni and son in his first job. The idea that the males would pay to make up for some future pay gap is ridiculous.

And if I advised my 21 year old daughter to sit on her hands when the bill came she'd laugh at me.

The reason people spectacularly miss the point about this (imo) is that men who want to split the bill are not doing it out of some great concern over equality. They're doing it because they're tight 🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s tight to want to pay for what you’ve had? Why isn’t it tight for a woman not to pay for her date as well?

@Moomin8 but you're not for wanting them to pay?

You can't have it both ways.

@Moomin8

“The reason people spectacularly miss the point about this (imo) is that men who want to split the bill are not doing it out of some great concern over equality. They're doing it because they're tight 🤷🏻‍♀️”

By that logic, women who don’t want to split the bill aren’t old-fashioned, they’re gold diggers.

It's the gesture that is important not the actual money.

I notice you didn’t answer my question.

Why isn’t it tight for a woman not to pay for her date as well?

Why isn’t it tight for a woman not to pay for her date as well?

the woman should offer to pay. If the man pays you offer to get the next date. You don't expect for them to pay forever more.

If you were to go back to the beginning of time and erase the social dynamics between women and men then what you are saying would be reasonable. But that's never going to happen.

@Moomin8

Social dynamics do change. Like everything else.

Dating isn't what it used to be. Apps have completely changed how people meet and under what circumstances.

Girls outperform boys at schools and more do STEM subjects.

And so on.

Speaking as a man I'd say that it is the woman who expects someone they have just met to pay for what they have eaten who is the tight one. Isn't it almost a definition of sexism to say that someone should pay for someone else because of their gender. As for the wage inequality argument - there are also wage inequalities for different racial groups, should it also apply when two people of different races dine together?

I have done my fair share of dating, sometimes the bill has been split, and sometimes I have paid on the first meeting. It really isn't that much of a deal and I don't mind paying for both if it is genuinely my choice but I really don't like it if I am expected to pay because I am a man (for me this is a red flag).

Social dynamics do change. Like everything else.

I don't see that much has changed. Girls at 7 years old still overwhelmingly think that boys are cleverer and will get better jobs than they will.

Misogyny is still at large. The patriarchy still rules the world.

Well the way to combat the patriarchy is not to sit sweetly and expect him to pay!

You're an equal. Set your bloody stall out.

I don't see that much has changed. Girls at 7 years old still overwhelmingly think that boys are cleverer and will get better jobs than they will.

Gosh, I wonder how such archaic attitudes continue?

Well the way to combat the patriarchy is not to sit sweetly and expect him to pay!

👏👏👏👏👏👏

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras no I don't believe that either and the results suggest otherwise.

They're doing it because they're tight

Interesting, when I graduated I did not have a pot to piss in, had a load of student debt, had just about scraped together a deposit for a room in a fleapit flat share and buy a cheap off the peg suit for my first professional job. It was tough during those first years paying my own way in London, all my fellow grads, male and female, were largely in the same boat. Nice to know that my struggle to pay for an evening out for two on a date was down to me being tight rather then just skint.

@AhNowTed I see your point, I really do. But I think particularly when you're dating men in their 40s and 50s this issue shows who they are because they won't change their approach to dating just because we're all supposed to pretend that women are equal now. When it's not true.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jan/26/girls-believe-brilliance-is-a-male-trait-research-into-gender-stereotypes-shows

So, men who want to split the bill are tight, ungenerous, etc.

Yet women who won't split the bill are striking a blow for women's lib - is that what you're saying?

I just cannot see how anyone can justify their reluctance to pay their own way, I really can't.

@Moomin8

“www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jan/26/girls-believe-brilliance-is-a-male-trait-research-into-gender-stereotypes-shows”

“Brilliance” is a more male trait than it is a female trait. You’ve seen the breakdown before: men and women have the same average intelligence, but men represent more at either extreme - extremely high or extremely low - than women do.

That’s not patriarchy or misogyny, it’s biology.

Girls outperforming boys across the board in school also shows that regardless of what people may say that girls believe, it doesn’t matter in practice.

And if seven year old girls are saying that boys in general are smarter, rather than individual people who happen to be boys are smarter, then you need look no further than their opinionated parental figures and the chips on their shoulders that they’re trying to pass on to their kids.

What .. is a bloke supposed to do these days?

Ask for half and be thought of as "stingy"?

Pay for it all unanounced and seen as what, i dunno, controling or somesuch?

Can't be right any of the time it seems:(

What a depressing article, which begs the question who is reinforcing these stereotypes with their 7 yr old daughters.

@Moomin8 I'm in my 50s. Thank god these beliefs are on the way out is all I can say. Because 'the man pays' is not helping women's cause at all.

the woman should offer to pay.

And presumably the man would be tight if he accepted that?

From your posts, I’m finding it hard to believe you think a woman should genuinely offer to pay for the whole first date or expect to pay for what she’s eaten. Otherwise, why would it be “tight” for the man not to pay?

My ex opened his wallet on our first date. Still didn't stop him being a cunt.

Split the bill.
Why should one person be expected to pay for owning a pair of bollocks?

I don't blame guys for preferring to split. So many tight people who use dates as free food. When I was on tinder I could have eaten every day for free.

As for men earn more. Erm no. Some men do. Some of the guys I've dated have had higher paying jobs, some the same, others less.
Didn't sit in the merc thinking mmmm, wonder what expensive place we are going so I can land him with a bill.

Food and drink on a date are a bonus.

Some would think the guys are proper tight arses because we've gone for a walk and chat. Had some of my best dates, walking around at night, watching other people and us having a laugh.

Even though I've remained friends with them. The bill hadn't nothing to do it with. Met some dickheads who paid as well as bill splitters