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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be pissed off with 'the man should pay' types?

362 replies

wimbmumma · 11/11/2019 19:52

I just find it so outdated! The only time I've ever let the man pay was, coincidentally, on my first date with my ex husband. Doesn't even cross most of me and my friends' minds that you should split it (if it is a dinner date that is) but A LOT of the schoolmums feel very differently, as they made abundantly clear at a coffee morning... so AIBU to find them a bit annoying and utterly stuck in the 19th century

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 13/11/2019 14:51

People disagree with me but my personal experience is that men who don't insist on paying at least to start with turn out to be selfish and much less attentive later on in the relationship in other ways.

So what character traits do women have who dont insist on paying? Are they also selfish and less attentive in relationships do you think?

matcatwomanheresheis · 13/11/2019 14:55

I don’t completely disagree with you Romanov. I’m just not so absolutist. The pendulum swinging to far the other way simply replaces one set of restrictions with another. Maybe feminists of the future will be fighting against the societal expectation of MN in 2019 when women felt as if they “should” put their babies into childcare so they could work 50 hours a week, whether they wanted to or not, to avoid criticism that they were not financially independent and, heaven forbid, dependent on the child’s father in any way. Who knows?

Moomin8 · 13/11/2019 15:26

So what character traits do women have who dont insist on paying? Are they also selfish and less attentive in relationships do you think?

Nope. The woman should offer and the man should refuse. You may not like it but men and women are different. Fairness does not mean everyone behaving in an identical way.

AryaStarkWolf · 13/11/2019 15:33

The woman should offer and the man should refuse.

Oh Christ

matcatwomanheresheis · 13/11/2019 15:38

Maybe some posters think men and women should only be allowed to wear the same type of clothes on dates too. It’s only fair, because women’s fashions are sexist right. Look at the history of that. Maybe there should be dating utility overalls for equality. While we’re at it, let’s all get the same haircut, if we all have to be the same to be considered equal.

Telling people who and what they can be attracted to is ridiculous really. You can’t legislate for people’s personal lives. What will be next, telling people what is acceptable in their sex lives?

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 13/11/2019 15:47

The woman should offer and the man should refuse.

And if you have no desire to meet the chap in question ever again? Will you still opt for the old 'fake reach' routine?

AryaStarkWolf · 13/11/2019 16:03

Maybe some posters think men and women should only be allowed to wear the same type of clothes on dates too. It’s only fair, because women’s fashions are sexist right. Look at the history of that. Maybe there should be dating utility overalls for equality. While we’re at it, let’s all get the same haircut, if we all have to be the same to be considered equal.

Hmm Yep, paying your share = getting your haircut and wearing overalls

easyandy101 · 13/11/2019 16:08

What will be next, telling people what is acceptable in their sex lives?

Is a fairly consistent theme on MN tbf

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 13/11/2019 16:20

The woman should offer and the man should refuse. You may not like it but men and women are different.

Well many posters are saying they don't even offer and can you explain what the difference is between men and women that causes a difference in ability to pay for things?

Moomin8 · 13/11/2019 16:23

can you explain what the difference is between men and women that causes a difference in ability to pay for things?

Yes. Most men still earn more than women. It's a fact. Most women are still the ones who also have to stay at home if they have a baby. They are the ones who have to take time out of working at the end of a pregnancy and afterwards.

Moomin8 · 13/11/2019 16:25

And if you have no desire to meet the chap in question ever again? Will you still opt for the old 'fake reach' routine?

No, absolutely not. If you know you'll never see him again then splitting the bill is the only thing you can do.

79andnotout · 13/11/2019 16:25

I have often asked men out on dates and paid for the meal and it's served me well. If they'd reached for a £200 bottle of champagne they'd have been on their ear though regardless of how much they'd spent on their haircut and aftershave.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 13/11/2019 16:30

Most men still earn more than women. It's a fact. Most women are still the ones who also have to stay at home if they have a baby. They are the ones who have to take time out of working at the end of a pregnancy and afterwards.*

I think the 1st part is changing but even if it isn't surely you can't have a hard and fast rule about this? What if the man is on a lower wage than you? Does he need to pay the "date tax" on behalf of all the men earning more than women? That seems bizarre.

As for the pregnancy, baby issue - were talking about 1st dates here. Why does it matter what a couple may choose to do, years down the line if they decide to have children? What if they don't stay together, or don't have children or they decide for dad to be the sahp? Face facts, there's no justification for expecting men to pay other than you like it.

AryaStarkWolf · 13/11/2019 16:30

Yes. Most men still earn more than women. It's a fact. Most women are still the ones who also have to stay at home if they have a baby. They are the ones who have to take time out of working at the end of a pregnancy and afterwards.

We're talking about the dating stage here, presumably neither have children (with eachother anyway) So what are you saying? A man should pay for the woman because they might have a child together at some point in the future and she might need to take time off work? Odd

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 13/11/2019 16:38

Yes. Most men still earn more than women. It's a fact. Most women are still the ones who also have to stay at home if they have a baby. They are the ones who have to take time out of working at the end of a pregnancy and afterwards.

So by that logic, if you met a divorced man who had been a stay at home dad for most of his previous relationship and was earning less then you due to time out of the work place would you offer to pay on a first date? Or do individual circumstances not enter the equation and men have a collective responsibility to pay up?

dontalltalkatonce · 13/11/2019 16:43

Exactly, and surely using the "little woman" persona on a date just attracts men who want that type of woman?

Sadly, no. I'm so glad I'm not single, but plenty of my mates are and there are a lot of men who are very '50/50' and 'equality' except when it comes to lifework and take the hump when they realise fewer and fewer women are being brought up to put up with that.

My daughter's just started really dating and mostly everyone pays for what they have and not 50/50 or bill splitting. She did have one date where the man went for the expensive champagne and she chimed up, 'I hope you realise you're paying for that as it's beyond my budget so I don't want any of it.' He got all pissed off. I think the landscape is changing, though, in that more and more people are not just putting up subsidising someone's expensive tastes in order to be 'polite' or 'nice' but saying, 'No, mine was XYZ and I'm not paying for yours.'

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 13/11/2019 16:49

She did have one date where the man went for the expensive champagne and she chimed up, 'I hope you realise you're paying for that as it's beyond my budget so I don't want any of it.' He got all pissed off.

Fair play to her!

easyandy101 · 13/11/2019 16:53

Yes. Most men still earn more than women. It's a fact. Most women are still the ones who also have to stay at home if they have a baby. They are the ones who have to take time out of working at the end of a pregnancy and afterwards

dontalltalkatonce · 13/11/2019 16:53

It seems like paying for yourself and what you have is the norm now. Also casual dates rather than a meal or the like until later - meeting for a coffee or a park run or some type of event (fireworks display, open air concert). She's pretty switched on with regards to safety, too (that poor girl in New Zealand with that tindr date Sad). In her experience the men who are really insistent on paying also tend to be the creeps when then suggest heading over to his or her place.

Pretzelcoatl · 13/11/2019 16:56

Read a few pages until posts were only repeats, skipped to the end and the discussion has shifted.

I’m fine with paying paying for a first date, and subsequent dates as I’ve typically out-earned the people I was dating. If, during early dates, they’d offer to pay I’d suggest half and accept. If they insisted, then they could pay. No problem.

When it becomes, repeatedly, a “Let’s go here, it’s my favourite!” sort of dynamic, when the date is significant outside of their spending range, and they just want me to buy them experiences outside of their means... then I’m less enthused.

I’m also not keen on, although I’ve only seen this in this thread and not experienced it in person, the notion of “gender pay gap so he should pay”. You would take a widely misunderstood and misapplied economic average and use it to inflict a penalty on an individual you’re dating? That sort of mentality is a red flag that anybody would be grateful to see early on before they get too invested in a relationship.

Moomin8 · 13/11/2019 17:05

Face facts, there's no justification for expecting men to pay other than you like it.

I don't agree. I have extensive dating experience and in my experience a man who didn't insist on paying for the first one always ended up in the future somehow wrangling it so that I paid more than he did or he was selfish in bed, or he was selfish generally. Or he was so tight he didn't want to spend money on anything except computer games.

It may not be technically appear to equal. But I think it speaks major volumes about who a man is and how he will be towards me later on.

Moomin8 · 13/11/2019 17:09

individual circumstances not enter the equation and men have a collective responsibility to pay up?

Individual circumstances certainly make a difference, yes. But all the men I've dated earned well apart from when I was in my teens.

That does not mean that I would expect them to keep on paying for me (my partner still does that now and I tell him no). It's an initial indicator of what kind of man this is. It's not the only one of course.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 13/11/2019 17:16

It may not be technically appear to equal. But I think it speaks major volumes about who a man is and how he will be towards me later on

So how does it say volumes about men but not women? This is what I'm not getting. Men who don't want to pay for everything are being judged negatively by women who are doing the same. I can't see the difference. Short arms, long pockets isn't an attractive trait in either sex.

PurpleDaisies · 13/11/2019 17:18

Men who don't want to pay for everything are being judged negatively by women who are doing the same.

This is the fundamental problem with expecting men to pay simply because they’re men.

AllStarBySmashMouth · 13/11/2019 17:23

It is outdated. And shitty. And yeah there is a gender pay gap but I earn more than my DP so 🤷🏻‍♀️ just pay for what you buy.

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