To be outraged that people still think its okay to use 'smacking' as a form of discipline for children?

[Dabbles]

It is seriously disgustign that people still think this is okay. It is not okay. what message does it steach the child? (its okay to hit someone if they dont do what you tell them?)

and for an adult who is physically so much bigger and stronger to hit a child? omg, serioulsy peopl wake the fuck up... it is NOT OKAY!

Like ASBO's being a 'badge of honour' I think getting caned at school might actually appeal to some as a mark of their rebelliousness.

But it probably would deter a whole bunch of children who follow a leader into trouble.

I wouldn't want to see it back though - it can be abused by staff. My fathers experience of school would land a whole lot of teachers in jail these days.

I don't really want some of that scary punishment back in schools.

But I want teachers to be able to discipline kids and bus conductors and park keepers (whatever happened to them?) to be able to discipline kids and tell them off and have them be a little bit scared.

I was rulered across knuckles, at age 5, for talking in class by an ancient teacher called Mrs Weller. I was terrified of her. She was a bully. She should never have taught Reception. Or any class, come to think of it. She also made an example of me in front of the class for wetting myself (which I did because I was too scared to ask permission to go to the loo in case I was rulered again for talking in class).

Whenever I think of my Primary School, that's what I remember first. Every single detail. Fucking nasty bitch.

Was Corporal Punishment even allowed at primary age? This was 1974.

Corporal punishment in schools is a really bad idea.

There is already a chronic lack of support in the education system for children with special needs, and some of those children have behavioural difficulties.

These children need treating with kindness and understanding, and not have to spend every day under the threat of getting hit by a teacher.

And people would say that it would only be the cheeky smart-arse kids with no respect that would be punished in this way.

But it wouldn't just be those.

It would be the children with undiagnosed or unsupported ASD, or the ones with learning difficulties who get angry because they get teased because they can't read or write well.

It would be horrendous.

she sounds awful.

I suppose the problem is there are teachers like her and there are teachers who just want to be able to use their authority again.

My personal view is that allowing children to have no respect for authority (typically in the form of teachers but also other adults generally) is abuse and far more damaging abuse than the odd clip round the ear or smack on the leg. These children grow up without any sense of how to operate successfully in the world, how to interact with people and how to be part of society.

I'm not actually advocating corporal punishment either at home or at school but just saying to the OP get a sense of perspective.

Being smacked occasionally is not the worst thing that can happen to a child. Being brought up to believe there are no sanctions for bad behaviour is far more damaging.

I understand where you two are coming from. Truly I do not think that rulering should be allowed in infant school. (5-7)

But I DO think it should be allowed in school from therein. Gawd I know it's unpopular thinking.

There is a thread running at the moment saying that no one knows what the right thing is apart from more counselling and parent courses.

Some of the parents that I come into contact with would knock you out if you suggested that they attend that course. However, their kids, think that they CAN get away with whatever, because they do. I can't stress enough that worrying the school teacher becomes a pleasure because they then get attention from the whole load of social deprovats who can be bothered, they then get a free trip to a local leisure centre..............

HC I wrote that last post before reading yours.

Lots of parents try to label their children as being SN because it takes the parenting issue from them. It's then turned over to the government. Therefore, their children are 'special needs'.

The most recent one I found was a boy who was considered Adhd because his mother was a fuckwit. I met her & him recently and he is an apprentice at RBS.

There was nothing wrong with him that a good kick up the arse wouldn't have solved, but she insisted that he was adhd. She was a lazy bird, couldn't be bothered to get up in the mornings as she smoked alot.

I am so pleased for him. Sadly having a mother like her, can't have helped, but maybe it did.

I know smacking children is not good and i certainly dont agree with making children scared of you and am glad we dont use corporal punishment these days BUT BUT BUT can you not all see how children have changed so much?

eg. olden days children got the belt/ slipper/ cane if they were cheeky/ misbehaved - not many children disrespected their elders back then did they? I dont think schools/ carers should ever be allowed to smack i think its definately up to the parents to disapline their own children but if you stop parents disaplining the children, then what will happen?

now-a-days - parents are so scared of punishing thier children and giving any disapline at all that children these days have absolutly no respect for their parents or anyone at all in fact.

I use smacking very rarely and feel absoultely awful when i do use it but I also use other ways to disapline and i also give lots of praise and positive encouragement, my children are well loved and they know it. If i don't disapline my children, who will? If I don't and they grow up to be deliquent who will get the blame? I think I would rather my children were brought up knowing right from wrong, i will do that without smacking if i can but if i think it is needed i will use it and they know that.

I dont agree with those who never tell their children off, i dont agree with those who scream and shout and smack their kids all day long either there has to be some balance.

Now im not saying my parenting is perfect, my dd1 is going through a phase of being rather cheeky and i dont smack her for it. i think its because she needs to get back to her routine of school and alot of it is due to jelousy.

hmm, Well I think the asbos are more likely to come from families who dont give a damn what thier kids do, and let them run riot.

my view:

smacking out of frustration, anger, and as a knee jerk reaction = wrong.

The problem with the husband smacking wife analogy is that they are 2 adults, neither comes under the other one's authority. Their relationship should be that of a partnership. Children are meant to be under the parent's authority, it is not unreasonable to teach them to obey you.

Corporal punishment isn't meant to be the sole means of discipline (root word of disciple is to teach), but is just one of the many tools that us parents have to guide our kids. Like anything, sadly it can be taken to extremes.

And here we are, at the obligatory Smacking Thread, which has evidently been a common occurrance on Mumsnet for, well, forever it seems. We have no doubt been treated to a wide array of highly irate posting, containing inflammatory remarks (possibly trolling) from both 'sides' of the debate, which to that end, i will abstain from joining as it is bad for my health .

Enjoy while it lasts ladies/gents because nobody wins.

And if it hasn't contained these things yet, it will, mark my words!

ok, i normally completely avoid these threads but have dipped in an out of these. i think dabbles is right tobe aghast at smacking it is shite thing to do. there is no justification.

UCM, re your comment "Lots of parents try to label their children as being SN because it takes the parenting issue from them. It's then turned over to the government. Therefore, their children are 'special needs'".

Many parents, myself and close friends included, have children who do have special educational needs.

And these needs are routinely denied and/or ignored by the school and the LEA.

Because they don't have, or won't spend, the money required to provide adequate or appropriate support.

I don't know anyone who has attempted to label their child without that child having genuine difficulties in the school environment.

It really does terrify me that these already vulnerable children will simply be cowed into sitting still and shutting the hell up, for fear of being hit by a member of staff.

It would no doubt work, but it would also give the education system even more leeway to ignore the root problems, and to deny the support they are legally obliged to give.

It's all a bit too Dotheboys Hall for me, I'm afraid.

I was recently been surprised to hear that someone I know does smack. And it does make me feel differently about her. I understand the angry, losing it smack but not the "I will now adminster corporal punishment because I feel it to be correct" coldblooded smack.

i dont know what the problem is in schools these days but i know that all forms of corpral punishment had been outlawed by the time i was in year 1(teachers were still allowed to smack when i was in reception),but generally we all did as we were told.i never misbehaved(exept once when i scratched a girl who'd been teasing me and i got in alot of trouble for that).i respected the teachers,and i was also scared that if i was naughty my mum would find out.

it was when i started senior school that i noticed things changing.when i was in year 7 most of us were scared of the prfects and did as we were told by them.by the time i was in year 11 and became a prefect myself,if we told the year 7's what to do we got laughed at or told to f**k off.

i also remember a girl in my year,who was always in trouble,getting into fights etc,got told off by a teacher and then claimed the teacher had smacked her.the girls parents marched to the school saying they were going to take legal action etc.

i cant help thinking that its the change in attitude of some parents,who dont want their little darlings being told off atall,or see a money-making oppurtunity in their child being 'picked on' by a teacher,thats partly to blame for some of the problems in society today.

diva, good point there about teh shift in parents and their attitude towards others telling their little darlings off....
when I was younger, if any neighbour etc..had seen us do something wrong they would a) tell us off there and then and b) tell our parents....and the parents raction would generally be in support of the person that told their Kid off....now, if you tell anohter child, you stand a big chance to have ratehr angry parents on your doorstep...and if you don't tell teh KId of, and just tell the parent, you will most liekly still end up at the receiving end of verbal abuse for daring to interfere....it is really no surprise that Kids behave the way they do...

I don't necessarily think it is all about smacking but I agree with the suggestion on here that it has become impossible to tell a child off. Children (especially not your own children) may only be spoken to with the utmost kindness and gentleness and heaven forbid that they should ever hear a sharp word from an adult.

My 67 year old mother and her 74 year old friend recently asked a child of about 8 in a cinema to stop kicking the back of their seats - quite nicely but firmly. He ignored them. My mother repeated her request more sharply. Parents told my mother and friend to eff off.

This is the root of all the problems we have today. What would have been wrong with showing that child a little sharpness? Picking him up and frogmarching him out of the cinema? They are not made out of spun sugar and yes, they do need to learn that there are some people you show respect to without having to understand quite why - in my book that includes older people.

All three of my sisters and i were smacked as children, usually on the hand and were first warned by "if you havn't done such and such by the count of three..." by our mum. the only time we were smacked as toddlers were if we were doing something dangerous.

and i have to say we were definitly the best behaved and well mannered children in our years at school and other parents would go into transports of delight at how polite and well behaved we were compared to their children, and amazingly not one of us is a psychopath, a bully or violent, and none of us are scared of our parents or scarred for life for having our hand smacked.

Hmmmm. Gut instinct = don't touch this one with a bargepole. However... urge to share anecodotal evidence is overwhelming. We don't smack DS. Never have done, don't ever plan to (btw, he is 2 and a half) Paternal grandmother staying with us over the summer. Takes it upon herself to smack him hard on the hand and arm one afternoon when he 'plays up'. Cue weird aggressive behaviour from my son for approx 48 hours. Didn't work. Didn't 'disipline' him. Didn't stop his bad behaviour. Stupid witch, my MIL.